Audacity alphas being distributed.

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Audacity alphas being distributed.

James Crook
Yesterday I noticed that Softpedia is re-distributing our 2.1.3 alphas -
our builds.  It is bad for Audacity, because we do not want alpha
versions going to people who don't know what they are.

A number of other sites are doing the same thing (google Audacity 2.1.3
alpha).  Some may even be hotlinking.  We can stop the hotlinking by
using Audacity-devel.html.

We can't prohibit someone who gets the alpha from us redistributing it,
because of GPL, but we can request that out of courtesy to us they don't
- because it leads to alphas in the wild.  And we can make all Alphas
pop up a big warning about only downloading from Audacity-devel.html
when they run.  That will make it less attractive to Softpedia to offer
them.  There can be a preference to disable the message.

I think we should do both of these steps.

--James.

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Re: Audacity alphas being distributed.

Paul Licameli


On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 6:11 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yesterday I noticed that Softpedia is re-distributing our 2.1.3 alphas -
our builds.  It is bad for Audacity, because we do not want alpha
versions going to people who don't know what they are.

A number of other sites are doing the same thing (google Audacity 2.1.3
alpha).  Some may even be hotlinking.  We can stop the hotlinking by
using Audacity-devel.html.

We can't prohibit someone who gets the alpha from us redistributing it,
because of GPL, but we can request that out of courtesy to us they don't
- because it leads to alphas in the wild.  And we can make all Alphas
pop up a big warning about only downloading from Audacity-devel.html
when they run.  That will make it less attractive to Softpedia to offer
them.  There can be a preference to disable the message.

I think we should do both of these steps.

--James.

+1 and +1 

PRL


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Re: Audacity alphas being distributed.

Cliff Scott
In reply to this post by James Crook

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 5:11 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yesterday I noticed that Softpedia is re-distributing our 2.1.3 alphas -
> our builds.  It is bad for Audacity, because we do not want alpha
> versions going to people who don't know what they are.
>
> A number of other sites are doing the same thing (google Audacity 2.1.3
> alpha).  Some may even be hotlinking.  We can stop the hotlinking by
> using Audacity-devel.html.
>
> We can't prohibit someone who gets the alpha from us redistributing it,
> because of GPL, but we can request that out of courtesy to us they don't
> - because it leads to alphas in the wild.  And we can make all Alphas
> pop up a big warning about only downloading from Audacity-devel.html
> when they run.  That will make it less attractive to Softpedia to offer
> them.  There can be a preference to disable the message.
>
> I think we should do both of these steps.
>
> --James

Agree!

Cliff

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Re: Audacity alphas being distributed.

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by James Crook
On 23 February 2017 at 23:11, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yesterday I noticed that Softpedia is re-distributing our 2.1.3 alphas -
> our builds.  It is bad for Audacity, because we do not want alpha
> versions going to people who don't know what they are.
>
> A number of other sites are doing the same thing (google Audacity 2.1.3
> alpha).  Some may even be hotlinking.  We can stop the hotlinking by
> using Audacity-devel.html.

Do you mean such a page on FossHub or on our main site, James?

I again suggest we do not want nightly builds on FossHub
Audacity-devel but on their own separate page. I think the message
of what is on Audacity-devel would get too obscured by dozens of
nightly builds.

How to automatically post the builds is a consideration too.


> We can't prohibit someone who gets the alpha from us redistributing it,
> because of GPL, but we can request that out of courtesy to us they don't
> - because it leads to alphas in the wild.

We don't have the resources to do that or to police compliance.

Moving the source page will help, as will greatly reduced download
numbers after 2.1.3 is released (so we are no longer advertising
them as a Windows 10 solution). I assume that is the main reason
that alphas have become distributed.


>  And we can make all Alphas pop up a big warning about only
>  downloading from Audacity-devel.html
> when they run.  That will make it less attractive to Softpedia to offer
> them.  There can be a preference to disable the message.

It shouldn't be too negative a message. It can link to information
about our testers' initiative.



Gale


> I think we should do both of these steps.
>
> --James.
>
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: Audacity alphas being distributed.

James Crook
On 2/24/2017 4:16 AM, Gale Andrews wrote:
> On 23 February 2017 at 23:11, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> We can stop the hotlinking by using Audacity-devel.html.
> Do you mean such a page on FossHub or on our main site, James?
FossHub already has anti-hotlinking code.

If we are doing automated builds, and have low download levels, those
could argue for using our main site.  Anti-hotlinking is crucial when
download levels are in the millions.  For downloads in the thousands, we
don't need a CDN, and could use CAPTCHA to prevent direct hotlinking and
clever indirect hotlinking scripts.

> I again suggest we do not want nightly builds on FossHub Audacity-devel but on their own separate page. I think the message of what is on Audacity-devel would get too obscured by dozens of nightly builds.
Sure.  +1.  Audacity-devel should be used for RCs and believed-GOOD
experimental builds.

>
>> We can't prohibit someone who gets the alpha from us redistributing it,
>> because of GPL, but we can request that out of courtesy to us they don't
>> - because it leads to alphas in the wild.
> We don't have the resources to do that or to police compliance.
We can put a request on the download page.

> Moving the source page will help, as will greatly reduced download
> numbers after 2.1.3 is released (so we are no longer advertising
> them as a Windows 10 solution). I assume that is the main reason
> that alphas have become distributed.
It may be why they started, but there is risk they continue out of habit....

>
>>   And we can make all Alphas pop up a big warning about only
>>   downloading from Audacity-devel.html
>> when they run.  That will make it less attractive to Softpedia to offer
>> them.  There can be a preference to disable the message.
> It shouldn't be too negative a message. It can link to information about our testers' initiative.
Exactly.
We could for example open a web browser at a particular page, as we do
for help.  That way we can update the message.



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Re: Audacity alphas being distributed.

Peter Sampson-2
I'm suspecting that we are seeing folk like this releasing alphas may be down
to the fact that it has been such a long time since our last formal release.

Unless you stumble into one of the serious bear-traps that we have discovered
recenty, the alphas from mid-2016 or so onwards look pretty functional and usable
(I've been using them for production work over that period) and with enhanced
functionality over 2.1.2 - so you can see why folk might be tempted.

But yes I would like to see a warning message in the app for alpha status (and
indeed RC status) - and for my money this would show every time and not be
capable of being turned off.

Peter.


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Re: Audacity alphas being distributed.

Vaughan Johnson-4
+1 to James's suggestions. Thanks for bringing it up, James. -- V<div
id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br />
<table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
        <tr>
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href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon"
target="_blank"><img
src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"
width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" /></a></td>
                <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e;
font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link"
target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com</a>
                </td>
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</table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
height="1"></a></div>

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 5:53 AM, Peter Sampson
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm suspecting that we are seeing folk like this releasing alphas may be
> down
> to the fact that it has been such a long time since our last formal release.
>
> Unless you stumble into one of the serious bear-traps that we have
> discovered
> recenty, the alphas from mid-2016 or so onwards look pretty functional and
> usable
> (I've been using them for production work over that period) and with
> enhanced
> functionality over 2.1.2 - so you can see why folk might be tempted.
>
> But yes I would like to see a warning message in the app for alpha status
> (and
> indeed RC status) - and for my money this would show every time and not be
> capable of being turned off.
>
> Peter.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

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Re: Audacity alphas being distributed.

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by James Crook
On 24 February 2017 at 10:44, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/24/2017 4:16 AM, Gale Andrews wrote:
>> On 23 February 2017 at 23:11, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> We can stop the hotlinking by using Audacity-devel.html.
>> Do you mean such a page on FossHub or on our main site, James?
> FossHub already has anti-hotlinking code.
>
> If we are doing automated builds, and have low download levels, those
> could argue for using our main site.  Anti-hotlinking is crucial when
> download levels are in the millions.  For downloads in the thousands, we
> don't need a CDN, and could use CAPTCHA to prevent direct hotlinking and
> clever indirect hotlinking scripts.
>
>> I again suggest we do not want nightly builds on FossHub Audacity-devel but on their own separate page. I think the message of what is on Audacity-devel would get too obscured by dozens of nightly builds.
> Sure.  +1.  Audacity-devel should be used for RCs and believed-GOOD
> experimental builds.
>
>>
>>> We can't prohibit someone who gets the alpha from us redistributing it,
>>> because of GPL, but we can request that out of courtesy to us they don't
>>> - because it leads to alphas in the wild.
>> We don't have the resources to do that or to police compliance.
> We can put a request on the download page.

I doubt "Please do not link directly to these downloads" would be
effective unless we listed offenders.


Gale


>> Moving the source page will help, as will greatly reduced download
>> numbers after 2.1.3 is released (so we are no longer advertising
>> them as a Windows 10 solution). I assume that is the main reason
>> that alphas have become distributed.
> It may be why they started, but there is risk they continue out of habit....
>
>>
>>>   And we can make all Alphas pop up a big warning about only
>>>   downloading from Audacity-devel.html
>>> when they run.  That will make it less attractive to Softpedia to offer
>>> them.  There can be a preference to disable the message.
>> It shouldn't be too negative a message. It can link to information about our testers' initiative.
> Exactly.
> We could for example open a web browser at a particular page, as we do
> for help.  That way we can update the message.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality

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Re: Audacity alphas being distributed.

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by James Crook
OK, for now, I'm blocking hotlinking except from audacityteam.org and its
subdomains.

Following a link from elsewhere should bring you to:
http://gaclrecords.org.uk/win-nightly/hotlinking.html

which has the same message as the scriptlet for the download page
that James developed.

I don't want to block empty referrers. We're moving the nightly builds
soon, so I think the above is sufficient.



Gale


On 23 February 2017 at 23:11, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yesterday I noticed that Softpedia is re-distributing our 2.1.3 alphas -
> our builds.  It is bad for Audacity, because we do not want alpha
> versions going to people who don't know what they are.
>
> A number of other sites are doing the same thing (google Audacity 2.1.3
> alpha).  Some may even be hotlinking.  We can stop the hotlinking by
> using Audacity-devel.html.
>
> We can't prohibit someone who gets the alpha from us redistributing it,
> because of GPL, but we can request that out of courtesy to us they don't
> - because it leads to alphas in the wild.  And we can make all Alphas
> pop up a big warning about only downloading from Audacity-devel.html
> when they run.  That will make it less attractive to Softpedia to offer
> them.  There can be a preference to disable the message.
>
> I think we should do both of these steps.
>
> --James.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality

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Re: Audacity alphas being distributed.

Vaughan Johnson-4
Thanks, Gale.

- V

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OK, for now, I'm blocking hotlinking except from audacityteam.org and its
> subdomains.
>
> Following a link from elsewhere should bring you to:
> http://gaclrecords.org.uk/win-nightly/hotlinking.html
>
> which has the same message as the scriptlet for the download page
> that James developed.
>
> I don't want to block empty referrers. We're moving the nightly builds
> soon, so I think the above is sufficient.
>
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 23 February 2017 at 23:11, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Yesterday I noticed that Softpedia is re-distributing our 2.1.3 alphas -
>> our builds.  It is bad for Audacity, because we do not want alpha
>> versions going to people who don't know what they are.
>>
>> A number of other sites are doing the same thing (google Audacity 2.1.3
>> alpha).  Some may even be hotlinking.  We can stop the hotlinking by
>> using Audacity-devel.html.
>>
>> We can't prohibit someone who gets the alpha from us redistributing it,
>> because of GPL, but we can request that out of courtesy to us they don't
>> - because it leads to alphas in the wild.  And we can make all Alphas
>> pop up a big warning about only downloading from Audacity-devel.html
>> when they run.  That will make it less attractive to Softpedia to offer
>> them.  There can be a preference to disable the message.
>>
>> I think we should do both of these steps.
>>
>> --James.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
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Re: Audacity alphas being distributed.

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gale
So far, the hotlink protection is not reducing the download figures
at all. So either the downloaders are people who want the
"Windows 10 fix" or they are persuaded they really do want alpha
builds, or a supplier is somehow exploiting that I allow empty referrers.

None of the hotlinkers I'm aware of are doing that. One of them
has changed the link so it goes direct to the nightly builds page,
but that's better than what we had before.


Gale


On 2 March 2017 at 01:04, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OK, for now, I'm blocking hotlinking except from audacityteam.org and its
> subdomains.
>
> Following a link from elsewhere should bring you to:
> http://gaclrecords.org.uk/win-nightly/hotlinking.html
>
> which has the same message as the scriptlet for the download page
> that James developed.
>
> I don't want to block empty referrers. We're moving the nightly builds
> soon, so I think the above is sufficient.
>
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 23 February 2017 at 23:11, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Yesterday I noticed that Softpedia is re-distributing our 2.1.3 alphas -
>> our builds.  It is bad for Audacity, because we do not want alpha
>> versions going to people who don't know what they are.
>>
>> A number of other sites are doing the same thing (google Audacity 2.1.3
>> alpha).  Some may even be hotlinking.  We can stop the hotlinking by
>> using Audacity-devel.html.
>>
>> We can't prohibit someone who gets the alpha from us redistributing it,
>> because of GPL, but we can request that out of courtesy to us they don't
>> - because it leads to alphas in the wild.  And we can make all Alphas
>> pop up a big warning about only downloading from Audacity-devel.html
>> when they run.  That will make it less attractive to Softpedia to offer
>> them.  There can be a preference to disable the message.
>>
>> I think we should do both of these steps.
>>
>> --James.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality

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