Audio selection tool tip at split line

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Audio selection tool tip at split line

Stevethefiddle
With Selection tool hovering close to an audio split line, Tab will
sometimes cycle through 2 tool tips and sometimes through 3 tool tips.

When cycling through 3 tooltips, 2 of the tips are "with / without snapping".

Until the Tab key is pressed, there is no indication to the user
whether they will get the two option cycle or the 3 option cycle. If
they get the 2 option cycle, there is no indication that by nudging
the cursor a little closer to the split will change the choices to the
3 option cycle.

Why is the "snap zone" smaller than the "join zone"?

Steve

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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Paul Licameli


On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
With Selection tool hovering close to an audio split line, Tab will
sometimes cycle through 2 tool tips and sometimes through 3 tool tips.


You are describing behavior even after the reversion of the appearance change for split lines?

 
When cycling through 3 tooltips, 2 of the tips are "with / without snapping".

Until the Tab key is pressed, there is no indication to the user
whether they will get the two option cycle or the 3 option cycle. If
they get the 2 option cycle, there is no indication that by nudging
the cursor a little closer to the split will change the choices to the
3 option cycle.

Why is the "snap zone" smaller than the "join zone"?

Steve

I suppose there are old ad hoc pixel snapping distances as magic numbers in two bits of code, that are different for no important reason, and easily fixed.

PRL

 

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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Paul Licameli
Easily fixed, at d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3

PRL


On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
With Selection tool hovering close to an audio split line, Tab will
sometimes cycle through 2 tool tips and sometimes through 3 tool tips.


You are describing behavior even after the reversion of the appearance change for split lines?

 
When cycling through 3 tooltips, 2 of the tips are "with / without snapping".

Until the Tab key is pressed, there is no indication to the user
whether they will get the two option cycle or the 3 option cycle. If
they get the 2 option cycle, there is no indication that by nudging
the cursor a little closer to the split will change the choices to the
3 option cycle.

Why is the "snap zone" smaller than the "join zone"?

Steve

I suppose there are old ad hoc pixel snapping distances as magic numbers in two bits of code, that are different for no important reason, and easily fixed.

PRL

 

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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Stevethefiddle
Does that leave any redundant status messages?

Steve

On 15 July 2017 at 19:12, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Easily fixed, at d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3
>
> PRL
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> With Selection tool hovering close to an audio split line, Tab will
>>> sometimes cycle through 2 tool tips and sometimes through 3 tool tips.
>>>
>>
>> You are describing behavior even after the reversion of the appearance
>> change for split lines?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> When cycling through 3 tooltips, 2 of the tips are "with / without
>>> snapping".
>>>
>>> Until the Tab key is pressed, there is no indication to the user
>>> whether they will get the two option cycle or the 3 option cycle. If
>>> they get the 2 option cycle, there is no indication that by nudging
>>> the cursor a little closer to the split will change the choices to the
>>> 3 option cycle.
>>>
>>> Why is the "snap zone" smaller than the "join zone"?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> I suppose there are old ad hoc pixel snapping distances as magic numbers
>> in two bits of code, that are different for no important reason, and easily
>> fixed.
>>
>> PRL
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Paul Licameli


On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
Does that leave any redundant status messages?

Explain.  I don't know what was redundant before.

The intention now is to append (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc would have any effect.

PRL

 

Steve

On 15 July 2017 at 19:12, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Easily fixed, at d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3
>
> PRL
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> With Selection tool hovering close to an audio split line, Tab will
>>> sometimes cycle through 2 tool tips and sometimes through 3 tool tips.
>>>
>>
>> You are describing behavior even after the reversion of the appearance
>> change for split lines?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> When cycling through 3 tooltips, 2 of the tips are "with / without
>>> snapping".
>>>
>>> Until the Tab key is pressed, there is no indication to the user
>>> whether they will get the two option cycle or the 3 option cycle. If
>>> they get the 2 option cycle, there is no indication that by nudging
>>> the cursor a little closer to the split will change the choices to the
>>> 3 option cycle.
>>>
>>> Why is the "snap zone" smaller than the "join zone"?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>
>> I suppose there are old ad hoc pixel snapping distances as magic numbers
>> in two bits of code, that are different for no important reason, and easily
>> fixed.
>>
>> PRL
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Stevethefiddle
Just wondering if any of the status / tool tip messages that I
referred to in the first post of this thread are now in the code but
unused (redundant / obsolete).
Your commit d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3 prevents some of
the messages appearing at the times described in the post, but that
commit does not touch the messages.

Steve

On 16 July 2017 at 18:08, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Does that leave any redundant status messages?
>
>
> Explain.  I don't know what was redundant before.
>
> The intention now is to append (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc would have any
> effect.
>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 15 July 2017 at 19:12, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Easily fixed, at d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Paul Licameli
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> With Selection tool hovering close to an audio split line, Tab will
>> >>> sometimes cycle through 2 tool tips and sometimes through 3 tool tips.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> You are describing behavior even after the reversion of the appearance
>> >> change for split lines?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> When cycling through 3 tooltips, 2 of the tips are "with / without
>> >>> snapping".
>> >>>
>> >>> Until the Tab key is pressed, there is no indication to the user
>> >>> whether they will get the two option cycle or the 3 option cycle. If
>> >>> they get the 2 option cycle, there is no indication that by nudging
>> >>> the cursor a little closer to the split will change the choices to the
>> >>> 3 option cycle.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why is the "snap zone" smaller than the "join zone"?
>> >>>
>> >>> Steve
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I suppose there are old ad hoc pixel snapping distances as magic
>> >> numbers
>> >> in two bits of code, that are different for no important reason, and
>> >> easily
>> >> fixed.
>> >>
>> >> PRL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> >>> [hidden email]
>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>
>
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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Paul Licameli


On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just wondering if any of the status / tool tip messages that I
referred to in the first post of this thread are now in the code but
unused (redundant / obsolete).
Your commit d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3 prevents some of
the messages appearing at the times described in the post, but that
commit does not touch the messages.

Steve

See also later commit 7a038c9e51daee80bd2bedf6434e009ee06daba6

I still append "(snapping)" but now append nothing if not snapping.

PRL

 

On 16 July 2017 at 18:08, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Does that leave any redundant status messages?
>
>
> Explain.  I don't know what was redundant before.
>
> The intention now is to append (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc would have any
> effect.
>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 15 July 2017 at 19:12, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Easily fixed, at d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Paul Licameli
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> With Selection tool hovering close to an audio split line, Tab will
>> >>> sometimes cycle through 2 tool tips and sometimes through 3 tool tips.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> You are describing behavior even after the reversion of the appearance
>> >> change for split lines?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> When cycling through 3 tooltips, 2 of the tips are "with / without
>> >>> snapping".
>> >>>
>> >>> Until the Tab key is pressed, there is no indication to the user
>> >>> whether they will get the two option cycle or the 3 option cycle. If
>> >>> they get the 2 option cycle, there is no indication that by nudging
>> >>> the cursor a little closer to the split will change the choices to the
>> >>> 3 option cycle.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why is the "snap zone" smaller than the "join zone"?
>> >>>
>> >>> Steve
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I suppose there are old ad hoc pixel snapping distances as magic
>> >> numbers
>> >> in two bits of code, that are different for no important reason, and
>> >> easily
>> >> fixed.
>> >>
>> >> PRL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> >>> [hidden email]
>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Peter Sampson-2
Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17

I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.

I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.

Peter.


On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just wondering if any of the status / tool tip messages that I
referred to in the first post of this thread are now in the code but
unused (redundant / obsolete).
Your commit d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3 prevents some of
the messages appearing at the times described in the post, but that
commit does not touch the messages.

Steve

See also later commit 7a038c9e51daee80bd2bedf6434e009ee06daba6

I still append "(snapping)" but now append nothing if not snapping.

PRL

 

On 16 July 2017 at 18:08, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Does that leave any redundant status messages?
>
>
> Explain.  I don't know what was redundant before.
>
> The intention now is to append (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc would have any
> effect.
>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 15 July 2017 at 19:12, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Easily fixed, at d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Paul Licameli
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> With Selection tool hovering close to an audio split line, Tab will
>> >>> sometimes cycle through 2 tool tips and sometimes through 3 tool tips.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> You are describing behavior even after the reversion of the appearance
>> >> change for split lines?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> When cycling through 3 tooltips, 2 of the tips are "with / without
>> >>> snapping".
>> >>>
>> >>> Until the Tab key is pressed, there is no indication to the user
>> >>> whether they will get the two option cycle or the 3 option cycle. If
>> >>> they get the 2 option cycle, there is no indication that by nudging
>> >>> the cursor a little closer to the split will change the choices to the
>> >>> 3 option cycle.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why is the "snap zone" smaller than the "join zone"?
>> >>>
>> >>> Steve
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I suppose there are old ad hoc pixel snapping distances as magic
>> >> numbers
>> >> in two bits of code, that are different for no important reason, and
>> >> easily
>> >> fixed.
>> >>
>> >> PRL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> >>> [hidden email]
>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Paul Licameli


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17

I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.

I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.

Peter.

I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.

But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.

I call that new tooltips shall appear for TCP and vertical rulers only.  We will wait till 2.2.1 to implement more of them elsewhere.

PRL
 


On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just wondering if any of the status / tool tip messages that I
referred to in the first post of this thread are now in the code but
unused (redundant / obsolete).
Your commit d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3 prevents some of
the messages appearing at the times described in the post, but that
commit does not touch the messages.

Steve

See also later commit 7a038c9e51daee80bd2bedf6434e009ee06daba6

I still append "(snapping)" but now append nothing if not snapping.

PRL

 

On 16 July 2017 at 18:08, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Does that leave any redundant status messages?
>
>
> Explain.  I don't know what was redundant before.
>
> The intention now is to append (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc would have any
> effect.
>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 15 July 2017 at 19:12, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Easily fixed, at d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Paul Licameli
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> With Selection tool hovering close to an audio split line, Tab will
>> >>> sometimes cycle through 2 tool tips and sometimes through 3 tool tips.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> You are describing behavior even after the reversion of the appearance
>> >> change for split lines?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> When cycling through 3 tooltips, 2 of the tips are "with / without
>> >>> snapping".
>> >>>
>> >>> Until the Tab key is pressed, there is no indication to the user
>> >>> whether they will get the two option cycle or the 3 option cycle. If
>> >>> they get the 2 option cycle, there is no indication that by nudging
>> >>> the cursor a little closer to the split will change the choices to the
>> >>> 3 option cycle.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why is the "snap zone" smaller than the "join zone"?
>> >>>
>> >>> Steve
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I suppose there are old ad hoc pixel snapping distances as magic
>> >> numbers
>> >> in two bits of code, that are different for no important reason, and
>> >> easily
>> >> fixed.
>> >>
>> >> PRL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Peter Sampson-2


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17

I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.

I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.

Peter.

I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.

I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are fiddling
with split lines.

If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty undiscoverable.



But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.

And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the waveform  - and so do acouple of
the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...
 

I call that new tooltips shall appear for TCP and vertical rulers only.  We will wait till 2.2.1 to implement more of them elsewhere.

Peter.
 

PRL
 


On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just wondering if any of the status / tool tip messages that I
referred to in the first post of this thread are now in the code but
unused (redundant / obsolete).
Your commit d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3 prevents some of
the messages appearing at the times described in the post, but that
commit does not touch the messages.

Steve

See also later commit 7a038c9e51daee80bd2bedf6434e009ee06daba6

I still append "(snapping)" but now append nothing if not snapping.

PRL

 

On 16 July 2017 at 18:08, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Does that leave any redundant status messages?
>
>
> Explain.  I don't know what was redundant before.
>
> The intention now is to append (Esc to cancel) whenever Esc would have any
> effect.
>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 15 July 2017 at 19:12, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Easily fixed, at d3572ebe1046127cc8cb0fd91716ed21911086c3
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Paul Licameli
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> With Selection tool hovering close to an audio split line, Tab will
>> >>> sometimes cycle through 2 tool tips and sometimes through 3 tool tips.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> You are describing behavior even after the reversion of the appearance
>> >> change for split lines?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> When cycling through 3 tooltips, 2 of the tips are "with / without
>> >>> snapping".
>> >>>
>> >>> Until the Tab key is pressed, there is no indication to the user
>> >>> whether they will get the two option cycle or the 3 option cycle. If
>> >>> they get the 2 option cycle, there is no indication that by nudging
>> >>> the cursor a little closer to the split will change the choices to the
>> >>> 3 option cycle.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why is the "snap zone" smaller than the "join zone"?
>> >>>
>> >>> Steve
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I suppose there are old ad hoc pixel snapping distances as magic
>> >> numbers
>> >> in two bits of code, that are different for no important reason, and
>> >> easily
>> >> fixed.
>> >>
>> >> PRL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

James Crook
On 7/17/2017 2:54 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17
>>>
>>> I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.
>>>
>>> I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
>>> of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.
>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>> I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.
>>
> I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are fiddling
> with split lines.
>
> If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty
> undiscoverable.
>
>
>
>> But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a
>> nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.
>>
> And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the
> waveform  - and so do acouple of
> the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...

Brrrrrrrrrrp

Peter: There is a precedent for waveform being neon green.  (Hi Contrast
mode).  I am now going to make most of the Light user interface neon
green too.   RM still allows changes to the theme files, after all.  
Your argument about precedent is as flimsily as a wet piece of tissue
paper to a fit of sneezing.


The tooltip on the vertical ruler is still bad, in my view.  It is a
portmanteau tooltip with three (count them) points in it.  It flickers
as I move the cursor up and down too.  It comes on immediately on hover,
rather than after a small delay.  I accept it is RMs right to decide on
things like this, at this stage.  If it does go through to 2.2.0
release, I will probably add a preference for 'extra tooltips' to 2.2.1.
so that I can turn this feature off, even if extra tooltips are on by
default.

Extended tooltips have their place, as part of a carefully designed help
system.  I think they're good in a 'what's that for' mode, but not good
at the same time as you are trying to get things done in Audacity rather
than exploring.

The nice thing about short tooltips on buttons is that experienced users
don't see them at all, whereas hesitant exploring newbies can get to
learn what a button/icon is for.  Experienced users unfortunately will
see the new tooltips over vertical scale and TCP panel.

--James.





>
>
>> I call that new tooltips shall appear for TCP and vertical rulers only.
>> We will wait till 2.2.1 to implement more of them elsewhere.
>>
> Peter.
>


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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Peter Sampson-2


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:28 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/17/2017 2:54 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
wrote:


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:

Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17

I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.

I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.

Peter.

I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.

I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are fiddling
with split lines.

If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty
undiscoverable.



But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a
nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.

And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the
waveform  - and so do acouple of
the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...

Brrrrrrrrrrp

Peter: There is a precedent for waveform being neon green.  (Hi Contrast mode).  I am now going to make most of the Light user interface neon green too.   RM still allows changes to the theme files, after all.  Your argument about precedent is as flimsily as a wet piece of tissue paper to a fit of sneezing.

It's a fair cop guv'nor ...

 


The tooltip on the vertical ruler is still bad, in my view.  It is a portmanteau tooltip with three (count them) points in it.  It flickers as I move the cursor up and down too.  It comes on immediately on hover, rather than after a small delay.  I accept it is RMs right to decide on things like this, at this stage.  If it does go through to 2.2.0 release, I will probably add a preference for 'extra tooltips' to 2.2.1. so that I can turn this feature off, even if extra tooltips are on by default.

Extended tooltips have their place, as part of a carefully designed help system.  I think they're good in a 'what's that for' mode, but not good at the same time as you are trying to get things done in Audacity rather than exploring.

The nice thing about short tooltips on buttons is that experienced users don't see them at all, whereas hesitant exploring newbies can get to learn what a button/icon is for.  Experienced users unfortunately will see the new tooltips over vertical scale and TCP panel.

+1

As you say,  the new tooltips for the TCP buttons and vertical Scale (and indeed the TCP)
come on immediately rather than after a short delay (cf. the short delay with the buttons in
the Transport toolbar). 

So the experienced user does, annoyingly, get to see all of those.

Is this a bug that we should be logging on Bugzilla, not least because it is inconsistent
compared with our other hovertext tooltips?

And yes, I too seee the annoying flickering with the Vertical Scale tooltip - and with the
TCP tooltip.

Peter.


--James.








I call that new tooltips shall appear for TCP and vertical rulers only.
We will wait till 2.2.1 to implement more of them elsewhere.

Peter.



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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Paul Licameli
In reply to this post by James Crook


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 10:28 AM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/17/2017 2:54 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
wrote:


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:

Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17

I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.

I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.

Peter.

I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.

I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are fiddling
with split lines.

If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty
undiscoverable.



But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a
nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.

And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the
waveform  - and so do acouple of
the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...

Brrrrrrrrrrp

Peter: There is a precedent for waveform being neon green.  (Hi Contrast mode).  I am now going to make most of the Light user interface neon green too.   RM still allows changes to the theme files, after all.  Your argument about precedent is as flimsily as a wet piece of tissue paper to a fit of sneezing.


The tooltip on the vertical ruler is still bad, in my view.  It is a portmanteau tooltip with three (count them) points in it.  It flickers as I move the cursor up and down too.  It comes on immediately on hover, rather than after a small delay.  I accept it is RMs right to decide on things like this, at this stage.  If it does go through to 2.2.0 release, I will probably add a preference for 'extra tooltips' to 2.2.1. so that I can turn this feature off, even if extra tooltips are on by default.

Extended tooltips have their place, as part of a carefully designed help system.  I think they're good in a 'what's that for' mode, but not good at the same time as you are trying to get things done in Audacity rather than exploring.

The nice thing about short tooltips on buttons is that experienced users don't see them at all, whereas hesitant exploring newbies can get to learn what a button/icon is for.  Experienced users unfortunately will see the new tooltips over vertical scale and TCP panel.

--James.

I said, or implied, that I would give a veto to these tooltips to anybody with a strong objection, and now I have heard one.

Consider the vertical ruler tooltips gone.

That leaves those on the buttons, which I added just for consistency with the behavior of toolbar buttons, and James does not object to.  Also the message about dragging on the TCP to rearrange tracks.  No opinions yet about that.

PRL

 








I call that new tooltips shall appear for TCP and vertical rulers only.
We will wait till 2.2.1 to implement more of them elsewhere.

Peter.



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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Stevethefiddle
In reply to this post by James Crook
On 17 July 2017 at 15:28, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 7/17/2017 2:54 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17
>>>>
>>>> I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.
>>>>
>>>> I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
>>>> of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.
>>>>
>>>> Peter.
>>>>
>>> I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.
>>>
>> I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are
>> fiddling
>> with split lines.
>>
>> If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty
>> undiscoverable.
>>
>>
>>
>>> But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a
>>> nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.
>>>
>> And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the
>> waveform  - and so do acouple of
>> the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...
>
>
> Brrrrrrrrrrp
>
> Peter: There is a precedent for waveform being neon green.  (Hi Contrast
> mode).  I am now going to make most of the Light user interface neon green
> too.   RM still allows changes to the theme files, after all.  Your argument
> about precedent is as flimsily as a wet piece of tissue paper to a fit of
> sneezing.

:-)

>
>
> The tooltip on the vertical ruler is still bad, in my view.  It is a
> portmanteau tooltip with three (count them) points in it.  It flickers as I
> move the cursor up and down too.  It comes on immediately on hover, rather
> than after a small delay.  I accept it is RMs right to decide on things like
> this, at this stage.  If it does go through to 2.2.0 release, I will
> probably add a preference for 'extra tooltips' to 2.2.1. so that I can turn
> this feature off, even if extra tooltips are on by default.

On Linux I do get a short delay before the tooltip appears, but as an
experienced user I still find that it gets in the way, particularly if
I'm wanting to zoom in vertically on a downward going peak near the
start of the track - in this case the part of the waveform that I
specifically need to see may be completely obscured by the (very
large) tooltip.

Steve

>
> Extended tooltips have their place, as part of a carefully designed help
> system.  I think they're good in a 'what's that for' mode, but not good at
> the same time as you are trying to get things done in Audacity rather than
> exploring.
>
> The nice thing about short tooltips on buttons is that experienced users
> don't see them at all, whereas hesitant exploring newbies can get to learn
> what a button/icon is for.  Experienced users unfortunately will see the new
> tooltips over vertical scale and TCP panel.
>
> --James.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> I call that new tooltips shall appear for TCP and vertical rulers only.
>>> We will wait till 2.2.1 to implement more of them elsewhere.
>>>
>> Peter.
>>
>
>
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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Peter Sampson-2
In reply to this post by Paul Licameli


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 10:28 AM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/17/2017 2:54 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
wrote:


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:

Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17

I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.

I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.

Peter.

I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.

I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are fiddling
with split lines.

If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty
undiscoverable.



But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a
nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.

And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the
waveform  - and so do acouple of
the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...

Brrrrrrrrrrp

Peter: There is a precedent for waveform being neon green.  (Hi Contrast mode).  I am now going to make most of the Light user interface neon green too.   RM still allows changes to the theme files, after all.  Your argument about precedent is as flimsily as a wet piece of tissue paper to a fit of sneezing.


The tooltip on the vertical ruler is still bad, in my view.  It is a portmanteau tooltip with three (count them) points in it.  It flickers as I move the cursor up and down too.  It comes on immediately on hover, rather than after a small delay.  I accept it is RMs right to decide on things like this, at this stage.  If it does go through to 2.2.0 release, I will probably add a preference for 'extra tooltips' to 2.2.1. so that I can turn this feature off, even if extra tooltips are on by default.

Extended tooltips have their place, as part of a carefully designed help system.  I think they're good in a 'what's that for' mode, but not good at the same time as you are trying to get things done in Audacity rather than exploring.

The nice thing about short tooltips on buttons is that experienced users don't see them at all, whereas hesitant exploring newbies can get to learn what a button/icon is for.  Experienced users unfortunately will see the new tooltips over vertical scale and TCP panel.

--James.

I said, or implied, that I would give a veto to these tooltips to anybody with a strong objection, and now I have heard one.

Consider the vertical ruler tooltips gone.

The TCP tooltip also flickers annoyingly when moving the curso in  the TCP
 

That leaves those on the buttons, which I added just for consistency with the behavior of toolbar buttons, and James does not object to. 

But as I explained in my response to James- these should appear subject to a delay as do all our
other hovertext tooltip buttons in Toolbars and in various Audacity dialogs.

As you have it now they appear immediately and thus the experienced user will get annoyed by this.

Peter

 
Also the message about dragging on the TCP to rearrange tracks.  No opinions yet about that.

PRL

 








I call that new tooltips shall appear for TCP and vertical rulers only.
We will wait till 2.2.1 to implement more of them elsewhere.

Peter.



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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Stevethefiddle
In reply to this post by Stevethefiddle
Just a cautionary consideration:
On Linux (possibly other platforms), a tooltip that is in the way can
be dismissed by pressing the Esc key, We need to be careful that does
not clash with other uses of the Esc key.

Steve

On 17 July 2017 at 15:57, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 17 July 2017 at 15:28, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 7/17/2017 2:54 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17
>>>>>
>>>>> I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
>>>>> of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>
>>>> I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.
>>>>
>>> I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are
>>> fiddling
>>> with split lines.
>>>
>>> If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty
>>> undiscoverable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a
>>>> nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.
>>>>
>>> And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the
>>> waveform  - and so do acouple of
>>> the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...
>>
>>
>> Brrrrrrrrrrp
>>
>> Peter: There is a precedent for waveform being neon green.  (Hi Contrast
>> mode).  I am now going to make most of the Light user interface neon green
>> too.   RM still allows changes to the theme files, after all.  Your argument
>> about precedent is as flimsily as a wet piece of tissue paper to a fit of
>> sneezing.
>
> :-)
>
>>
>>
>> The tooltip on the vertical ruler is still bad, in my view.  It is a
>> portmanteau tooltip with three (count them) points in it.  It flickers as I
>> move the cursor up and down too.  It comes on immediately on hover, rather
>> than after a small delay.  I accept it is RMs right to decide on things like
>> this, at this stage.  If it does go through to 2.2.0 release, I will
>> probably add a preference for 'extra tooltips' to 2.2.1. so that I can turn
>> this feature off, even if extra tooltips are on by default.
>
> On Linux I do get a short delay before the tooltip appears, but as an
> experienced user I still find that it gets in the way, particularly if
> I'm wanting to zoom in vertically on a downward going peak near the
> start of the track - in this case the part of the waveform that I
> specifically need to see may be completely obscured by the (very
> large) tooltip.
>
> Steve
>
>>
>> Extended tooltips have their place, as part of a carefully designed help
>> system.  I think they're good in a 'what's that for' mode, but not good at
>> the same time as you are trying to get things done in Audacity rather than
>> exploring.
>>
>> The nice thing about short tooltips on buttons is that experienced users
>> don't see them at all, whereas hesitant exploring newbies can get to learn
>> what a button/icon is for.  Experienced users unfortunately will see the new
>> tooltips over vertical scale and TCP panel.
>>
>> --James.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I call that new tooltips shall appear for TCP and vertical rulers only.
>>>> We will wait till 2.2.1 to implement more of them elsewhere.
>>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality

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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Paul Licameli


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just a cautionary consideration:
On Linux (possibly other platforms), a tooltip that is in the way can
be dismissed by pressing the Esc key, We need to be careful that does
not clash with other uses of the Esc key.

Steve

There are fewer opportunities for this now.

Try clicking to rearrange tracks.  Esc is meant to cancel that drag.  Can you get the tooltip?  Must you simply it Esc twice rather than once?

PRL

 

On 17 July 2017 at 15:57, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 17 July 2017 at 15:28, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 7/17/2017 2:54 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17
>>>>>
>>>>> I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
>>>>> of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>
>>>> I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.
>>>>
>>> I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are
>>> fiddling
>>> with split lines.
>>>
>>> If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty
>>> undiscoverable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a
>>>> nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.
>>>>
>>> And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the
>>> waveform  - and so do acouple of
>>> the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...
>>
>>
>> Brrrrrrrrrrp
>>
>> Peter: There is a precedent for waveform being neon green.  (Hi Contrast
>> mode).  I am now going to make most of the Light user interface neon green
>> too.   RM still allows changes to the theme files, after all.  Your argument
>> about precedent is as flimsily as a wet piece of tissue paper to a fit of
>> sneezing.
>
> :-)
>
>>
>>
>> The tooltip on the vertical ruler is still bad, in my view.  It is a
>> portmanteau tooltip with three (count them) points in it.  It flickers as I
>> move the cursor up and down too.  It comes on immediately on hover, rather
>> than after a small delay.  I accept it is RMs right to decide on things like
>> this, at this stage.  If it does go through to 2.2.0 release, I will
>> probably add a preference for 'extra tooltips' to 2.2.1. so that I can turn
>> this feature off, even if extra tooltips are on by default.
>
> On Linux I do get a short delay before the tooltip appears, but as an
> experienced user I still find that it gets in the way, particularly if
> I'm wanting to zoom in vertically on a downward going peak near the
> start of the track - in this case the part of the waveform that I
> specifically need to see may be completely obscured by the (very
> large) tooltip.
>
> Steve
>
>>
>> Extended tooltips have their place, as part of a carefully designed help
>> system.  I think they're good in a 'what's that for' mode, but not good at
>> the same time as you are trying to get things done in Audacity rather than
>> exploring.
>>
>> The nice thing about short tooltips on buttons is that experienced users
>> don't see them at all, whereas hesitant exploring newbies can get to learn
>> what a button/icon is for.  Experienced users unfortunately will see the new
>> tooltips over vertical scale and TCP panel.
>>
>> --James.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I call that new tooltips shall appear for TCP and vertical rulers only.
>>>> We will wait till 2.2.1 to implement more of them elsewhere.
>>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality

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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Stevethefiddle
On 17 July 2017 at 16:21, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Steve the Fiddle
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Just a cautionary consideration:
>> On Linux (possibly other platforms), a tooltip that is in the way can
>> be dismissed by pressing the Esc key, We need to be careful that does
>> not clash with other uses of the Esc key.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> There are fewer opportunities for this now.
>
> Try clicking to rearrange tracks.  Esc is meant to cancel that drag.  Can
> you get the tooltip?  Must you simply it Esc twice rather than once?

It looks a bit weird.
If I click and hold on the track info panel, the tooltip appears.
Press Esc and the tooltip flashes off and back on again - at this
point it is unclear whether the action has been cancelled or not (it
has been cancelled, so the tooltip is now wrong because the track can
not be dragged).
Press Esc again and the tooltip is cancelled.

If Esc is pressed after completing the drag but before releasing the
mouse button, then both the drag and the tooltip are cancelled, which
is what I would expect.

Steve

>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>> On 17 July 2017 at 15:57, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On 17 July 2017 at 15:28, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> On 7/17/2017 2:54 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli
>> >>> <[hidden email]>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <
>> >>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my
>> >>>>> line
>> >>>>> of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Peter.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.
>> >>>>
>> >>> I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are
>> >>> fiddling
>> >>> with split lines.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty
>> >>> undiscoverable.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.
>> >>>>
>> >>> And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the
>> >>> waveform  - and so do acouple of
>> >>> the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Brrrrrrrrrrp
>> >>
>> >> Peter: There is a precedent for waveform being neon green.  (Hi
>> >> Contrast
>> >> mode).  I am now going to make most of the Light user interface neon
>> >> green
>> >> too.   RM still allows changes to the theme files, after all.  Your
>> >> argument
>> >> about precedent is as flimsily as a wet piece of tissue paper to a fit
>> >> of
>> >> sneezing.
>> >
>> > :-)
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The tooltip on the vertical ruler is still bad, in my view.  It is a
>> >> portmanteau tooltip with three (count them) points in it.  It flickers
>> >> as I
>> >> move the cursor up and down too.  It comes on immediately on hover,
>> >> rather
>> >> than after a small delay.  I accept it is RMs right to decide on things
>> >> like
>> >> this, at this stage.  If it does go through to 2.2.0 release, I will
>> >> probably add a preference for 'extra tooltips' to 2.2.1. so that I can
>> >> turn
>> >> this feature off, even if extra tooltips are on by default.
>> >
>> > On Linux I do get a short delay before the tooltip appears, but as an
>> > experienced user I still find that it gets in the way, particularly if
>> > I'm wanting to zoom in vertically on a downward going peak near the
>> > start of the track - in this case the part of the waveform that I
>> > specifically need to see may be completely obscured by the (very
>> > large) tooltip.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Extended tooltips have their place, as part of a carefully designed
>> >> help
>> >> system.  I think they're good in a 'what's that for' mode, but not good
>> >> at
>> >> the same time as you are trying to get things done in Audacity rather
>> >> than
>> >> exploring.
>> >>
>> >> The nice thing about short tooltips on buttons is that experienced
>> >> users
>> >> don't see them at all, whereas hesitant exploring newbies can get to
>> >> learn
>> >> what a button/icon is for.  Experienced users unfortunately will see
>> >> the new
>> >> tooltips over vertical scale and TCP panel.
>> >>
>> >> --James.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> I call that new tooltips shall appear for TCP and vertical rulers
>> >>>> only.
>> >>>> We will wait till 2.2.1 to implement more of them elsewhere.
>> >>>>
>> >>> Peter.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

James Crook
In reply to this post by Paul Licameli
On 7/17/2017 3:55 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 10:28 AM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 7/17/2017 2:54 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17
>>>>> I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
>>>>> of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>
>>>>> I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.
>>>> I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are
>>> fiddling
>>> with split lines.
>>>
>>> If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty
>>> undiscoverable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a
>>>> nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.
>>>>
>>>> And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the
>>> waveform  - and so do acouple of
>>> the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...
>>>
>> Brrrrrrrrrrp
>>
>> Peter: There is a precedent for waveform being neon green.  (Hi Contrast
>> mode).  I am now going to make most of the Light user interface neon green
>> too.   RM still allows changes to the theme files, after all.  Your
>> argument about precedent is as flimsily as a wet piece of tissue paper to a
>> fit of sneezing.
>>
>>
>> The tooltip on the vertical ruler is still bad, in my view.  It is a
>> portmanteau tooltip with three (count them) points in it.  It flickers as I
>> move the cursor up and down too.  It comes on immediately on hover, rather
>> than after a small delay.  I accept it is RMs right to decide on things
>> like this, at this stage.  If it does go through to 2.2.0 release, I will
>> probably add a preference for 'extra tooltips' to 2.2.1. so that I can turn
>> this feature off, even if extra tooltips are on by default.
>>
>> Extended tooltips have their place, as part of a carefully designed help
>> system.  I think they're good in a 'what's that for' mode, but not good at
>> the same time as you are trying to get things done in Audacity rather than
>> exploring.
>>
>> The nice thing about short tooltips on buttons is that experienced users
>> don't see them at all, whereas hesitant exploring newbies can get to learn
>> what a button/icon is for.  Experienced users unfortunately will see the
>> new tooltips over vertical scale and TCP panel.
>>
>> --James.
>
> I said, or implied, that I would give a veto to these tooltips to anybody
> with a strong objection, and now I have heard one.
>
> Consider the vertical ruler tooltips gone.
>
> That leaves those on the buttons, which I added just for consistency with
> the behavior of toolbar buttons, and James does not object to.  Also the
> message about dragging on the TCP to rearrange tracks.  No opinions yet
> about that.
With latest, time delay and no flicker are big improvements.  Thanks for
removing the Vertical ruler tooltip too.

I'm not keen on, but I can live with the TCP rearrange tip.  It's
portmanteau when there are two tracks; it confuses me when I am part way
through a drag and about to release the mouse button.  It does appear
for me, unless I am quick with the dragging.  But I can see reasons for
it.  A refinement, perhaps for 2.2.1, would be not to show the tooltip
at all if the mouse is down before the timer completes.  That way I and
users used to Audacity would hardly ever see it.

--James.



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Re: Audio selection tool tip at split line

Paul Licameli


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:49 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/17/2017 3:55 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 10:28 AM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 7/17/2017 2:54 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:

On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
wrote:


On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:

Testing on W10 audacity-win-r1faa234-2.2.0-alpha-17-jul-17
I am no longer seeing the tooltip when I hover over a split line.

I do still get the Staus Bar message - but that is way out of my line
of sight while I'm hovering over the split line.

Peter.

I take it you, Peter, are generally in favor of these new tooltips.
I just think users won't see the Status BAr message while they are
fiddling
with split lines.

If you don't spot the Status Bar message then the Esc is pretty
undiscoverable.



But there was complaint about tooltips in the proper track area being a
nuisance obscuring what you want to see.  I bowed to that.

And note that the new tooltip for Vertical Scale obsures part of the
waveform  - and so do acouple of
the TCP button tooltips - so there is now a precedent ...

Brrrrrrrrrrp

Peter: There is a precedent for waveform being neon green.  (Hi Contrast
mode).  I am now going to make most of the Light user interface neon green
too.   RM still allows changes to the theme files, after all.  Your
argument about precedent is as flimsily as a wet piece of tissue paper to a
fit of sneezing.


The tooltip on the vertical ruler is still bad, in my view.  It is a
portmanteau tooltip with three (count them) points in it.  It flickers as I
move the cursor up and down too.  It comes on immediately on hover, rather
than after a small delay.  I accept it is RMs right to decide on things
like this, at this stage.  If it does go through to 2.2.0 release, I will
probably add a preference for 'extra tooltips' to 2.2.1. so that I can turn
this feature off, even if extra tooltips are on by default.

Extended tooltips have their place, as part of a carefully designed help
system.  I think they're good in a 'what's that for' mode, but not good at
the same time as you are trying to get things done in Audacity rather than
exploring.

The nice thing about short tooltips on buttons is that experienced users
don't see them at all, whereas hesitant exploring newbies can get to learn
what a button/icon is for.  Experienced users unfortunately will see the
new tooltips over vertical scale and TCP panel.

--James.

I said, or implied, that I would give a veto to these tooltips to anybody
with a strong objection, and now I have heard one.

Consider the vertical ruler tooltips gone.

That leaves those on the buttons, which I added just for consistency with
the behavior of toolbar buttons, and James does not object to.  Also the
message about dragging on the TCP to rearrange tracks.  No opinions yet
about that.
With latest, time delay and no flicker are big improvements.  Thanks for removing the Vertical ruler tooltip too.

I'm not keen on, but I can live with the TCP rearrange tip.  It's portmanteau when there are two tracks; it confuses me when I am part way through a drag and about to release the mouse button.  It does appear for me, unless I am quick with the dragging.  But I can see reasons for it.  A refinement, perhaps for 2.2.1, would be not to show the tooltip at all if the mouse is down before the timer completes.  That way I and users used to Audacity would hardly ever see it.

Dismiss this tooltip after button-down?  I can easily do that, or just eliminate it.

I think even you like the button tooltips that clue one to the keyboard shortcuts (which are lacking only for the expand/collapse button).

PRL

 


--James.




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