Auto-select audio for editing

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Auto-select audio for editing

Peter Sampson-2
The new nomenclature for "select all if none" is now:
 "Auto-select audio for editing"


1) James stated yesterday that this was slightly confusing to him, as he didn't normally
regard effects as editing.

2)  Analyzers cetainly aren't editing - but Auto-select applies to them, and the descriptor
does not convey that.

3) Worse still is that Auto-select applies to deletion with the keyboard Delete key, Ctrl+K
and Cut and there is no real indication in the descriptor  that the incautious user with
Auto-select turned on could inadvertently delete their entire audio.

We know that 3 happens - we have had many posts on the Forum over the years - and we
know that often the user panics in that situation and has no wknowledge or experience of
Undo or History and so lose their project contents.


I can live with 2 - but 3 is a different matter.  This is why I favoured the terse "Auto-select" as
the descriptor - that way the unkowledgeable user would be wise to use the new iconic
help button to read more about Auto-select in the Manual.


We could, of course, deal with 3 by preventing deletion and cut from acting on Auto-select, and
I think Gale suggested this in a different thread a short while ago.

Cheers,
Peter.

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Re: Auto-select audio for editing

Stevethefiddle
On 8 June 2017 at 13:20, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The new nomenclature for "select all if none" is now:
>  "Auto-select audio for editing"
>
>
> 1) James stated yesterday that this was slightly confusing to him, as he
> didn't normally
> regard effects as editing.

Imo, James is right. There's an important distinction between
"editing" and "processing".

Technically, "editing" just changes the order of samples, whereas
"processing" changes their values. This has important implications
when considering "lossless" manipulations and "dither".

Practically there are big differences - most obviously that Edit
command are in the Edit menu and effects are predominantly in the
Effect menu.

>
> 2)  Analyzers cetainly aren't editing - but Auto-select applies to them, and
> the descriptor
> does not convey that.
>
> 3) Worse still is that Auto-select applies to deletion with the keyboard
> Delete key, Ctrl+K
> and Cut and there is no real indication in the descriptor  that the
> incautious user with
> Auto-select turned on could inadvertently delete their entire audio.
>
> We know that 3 happens - we have had many posts on the Forum over the years
> - and we
> know that often the user panics in that situation and has no wknowledge or
> experience of
> Undo or History and so lose their project contents.
>
>
> I can live with 2 - but 3 is a different matter.  This is why I favoured the
> terse "Auto-select" as
> the descriptor - that way the unkowledgeable user would be wise to use the
> new iconic
> help button to read more about Auto-select in the Manual.
>
>
> We could, of course, deal with 3 by preventing deletion and cut from acting
> on Auto-select, and
> I think Gale suggested this in a different thread a short while ago.

I've made my views known many times, but to reiterate briefly, a
straightforward solution would imo, be to make "select all if none..."
apply to effects only (and move the preference setting into the
"Effects" section of preferences).

Steve

>
> Cheers,
> Peter.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Auto-select audio for editing

Cliff Scott
In reply to this post by Peter Sampson-2
If I can interject my thoughts here - Trying to see it as an uninitiated user Auto-select in its various forms to me does not imply what is happening, i.e. the whole audio track is selected. It certainly is not intuitive to my way of thinking.

Cliff

> On Jun 8, 2017, at 7:20 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The new nomenclature for "select all if none" is now:
>  "Auto-select audio for editing"
>
>
> 1) James stated yesterday that this was slightly confusing to him, as he didn't normally
> regard effects as editing.
>
> 2)  Analyzers cetainly aren't editing - but Auto-select applies to them, and the descriptor
> does not convey that.
>
> 3) Worse still is that Auto-select applies to deletion with the keyboard Delete key, Ctrl+K
> and Cut and there is no real indication in the descriptor  that the incautious user with
> Auto-select turned on could inadvertently delete their entire audio.
>
> We know that 3 happens - we have had many posts on the Forum over the years - and we
> know that often the user panics in that situation and has no wknowledge or experience of
> Undo or History and so lose their project contents.
>
>
> I can live with 2 - but 3 is a different matter.  This is why I favoured the terse "Auto-select" as
> the descriptor - that way the unkowledgeable user would be wise to use the new iconic
> help button to read more about Auto-select in the Manual.
>
>
> We could, of course, deal with 3 by preventing deletion and cut from acting on Auto-select, and
> I think Gale suggested this in a different thread a short while ago.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


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Re: Auto-select audio for editing

Gale
Administrator
So your vote Cliff is for what shortened wording?


Gale


On 8 June 2017 at 14:12, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If I can interject my thoughts here - Trying to see it as an uninitiated user Auto-select in its various forms to me does not imply what is happening, i.e. the whole audio track is selected. It certainly is not intuitive to my way of thinking.
>
> Cliff
>
>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 7:20 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The new nomenclature for "select all if none" is now:
>>  "Auto-select audio for editing"
>>
>>
>> 1) James stated yesterday that this was slightly confusing to him, as he didn't normally
>> regard effects as editing.
>>
>> 2)  Analyzers cetainly aren't editing - but Auto-select applies to them, and the descriptor
>> does not convey that.
>>
>> 3) Worse still is that Auto-select applies to deletion with the keyboard Delete key, Ctrl+K
>> and Cut and there is no real indication in the descriptor  that the incautious user with
>> Auto-select turned on could inadvertently delete their entire audio.
>>
>> We know that 3 happens - we have had many posts on the Forum over the years - and we
>> know that often the user panics in that situation and has no wknowledge or experience of
>> Undo or History and so lose their project contents.
>>
>>
>> I can live with 2 - but 3 is a different matter.  This is why I favoured the terse "Auto-select" as
>> the descriptor - that way the unkowledgeable user would be wise to use the new iconic
>> help button to read more about Auto-select in the Manual.
>>
>>
>> We could, of course, deal with 3 by preventing deletion and cut from acting on Auto-select, and
>> I think Gale suggested this in a different thread a short while ago.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Peter.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>
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Re: Auto-select audio for editing

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by Stevethefiddle
On 8 June 2017 at 13:37, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8 June 2017 at 13:20, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The new nomenclature for "select all if none" is now:
>>  "Auto-select audio for editing"
>>
>>
>> 1) James stated yesterday that this was slightly confusing to him, as he
>> didn't normally
>> regard effects as editing.
>
> Imo, James is right. There's an important distinction between
> "editing" and "processing".
>
> Technically, "editing" just changes the order of samples, whereas
> "processing" changes their values. This has important implications
> when considering "lossless" manipulations and "dither".
>
> Practically there are big differences - most obviously that Edit
> command are in the Edit menu and effects are predominantly in the
> Effect menu.

There is definitely a possible confusion point there, but I did not
want to use more words than I have and I do think much more
flavour of what it does is given than by bare "Auto-select".

Unless someone thinks

"Auto-select audio for effects/edits"

is OK? Effects has the emphasis because it comes first.

We could have "for action" instead of "for editing" but I think
someone already did not like that.

My problem with "Auto-select" is that if someone tries it and
finds it doesn't auto-select all after record or import or however
they interpreted it, then they may just not bother to look it
up and miss out on something that they may find useful.


>> 2)  Analyzers cetainly aren't editing - but Auto-select applies to them, and
>> the descriptor
>> does not convey that.
>>
>> 3) Worse still is that Auto-select applies to deletion with the keyboard
>> Delete key, Ctrl+K
>> and Cut and there is no real indication in the descriptor  that the
>> incautious user with
>> Auto-select turned on could inadvertently delete their entire audio.
>>
>> We know that 3 happens - we have had many posts on the Forum over the years
>> - and we
>> know that often the user panics in that situation and has no wknowledge or
>> experience of
>> Undo or History and so lose their project contents.
>>
>>
>> I can live with 2 - but 3 is a different matter.  This is why I favoured the
>> terse "Auto-select" as
>> the descriptor - that way the unkowledgeable user would be wise to use the
>> new iconic
>> help button to read more about Auto-select in the Manual.

You have stunning faith that people will RTFM via an icon at the
other end of the prefs pane rather than head for a YouTube video
of Audacity 1.2.6. :=)

IMO to be much terser than we now are, we would need contextual
help or tooltips/help icons per item. That's a general feeling I have,
not just about Auto-select.


>> We could, of course, deal with 3 by preventing deletion and cut from acting
>> on Auto-select, and
>> I think Gale suggested this in a different thread a short while ago.
>
> I've made my views known many times, but to reiterate briefly, a
> straightforward solution would imo, be to make "select all if none..."
> apply to effects only (and move the preference setting into the
> "Effects" section of preferences).

That throws out the baby with the bathwater IMO. To name
some, Copy, Duplicate and Clip Boundaries > Join or
Detach at Silences are really useful with Auto-select. Well
I use them like that anyway.

Auto-select on cuts and deletes have more downsides than
upsides, I think.


Gale

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Re: Auto-select audio for editing

Cliff Scott
In reply to this post by Gale
After following this thread I think the simplest and most informative wording for the general user would be:

"Auto-select all if selection required."

This gets across the point that it only happens if there is a need for a selection and none exists and that it happens without user intervention. You can't add the word audio because if there are multiple tracks the user may wonder whether it will apply to all tracks or only the selected track.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

Cliff

> On Jun 8, 2017, at 12:39 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So your vote Cliff is for what shortened wording?
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 8 June 2017 at 14:12, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> If I can interject my thoughts here - Trying to see it as an uninitiated user Auto-select in its various forms to me does not imply what is happening, i.e. the whole audio track is selected. It certainly is not intuitive to my way of thinking.
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 7:20 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> The new nomenclature for "select all if none" is now:
>>> "Auto-select audio for editing"
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) James stated yesterday that this was slightly confusing to him, as he didn't normally
>>> regard effects as editing.
>>>
>>> 2)  Analyzers cetainly aren't editing - but Auto-select applies to them, and the descriptor
>>> does not convey that.
>>>
>>> 3) Worse still is that Auto-select applies to deletion with the keyboard Delete key, Ctrl+K
>>> and Cut and there is no real indication in the descriptor  that the incautious user with
>>> Auto-select turned on could inadvertently delete their entire audio.
>>>
>>> We know that 3 happens - we have had many posts on the Forum over the years - and we
>>> know that often the user panics in that situation and has no wknowledge or experience of
>>> Undo or History and so lose their project contents.
>>>
>>>
>>> I can live with 2 - but 3 is a different matter.  This is why I favoured the terse "Auto-select" as
>>> the descriptor - that way the unkowledgeable user would be wise to use the new iconic
>>> help button to read more about Auto-select in the Manual.
>>>
>>>
>>> We could, of course, deal with 3 by preventing deletion and cut from acting on Auto-select, and
>>> I think Gale suggested this in a different thread a short while ago.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Peter.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>>
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Re: Auto-select audio for editing

Gale
Administrator
On 9 June 2017 at 01:57, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
> After following this thread I think the simplest and most informative wording for the general user would be:
>
> "Auto-select all if selection required."
>
> This gets across the point that it only happens if there is a need for a selection and none exists and that it happens without user intervention. You can't add the word audio because if there are multiple tracks the user may wonder whether it will apply to all tracks or only the selected track.
>
> Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

Thanks, Cliff.

The problem with that is that we don't necessarily select "all". If there
is a cursor in one selected track and other tracks are not selected,
we only select all in the selected track.

I'll drop the word "audio". I thought it might be a good idea because
if you click in a label track then apply an effect, we message that you
must select some audio. But if you have an unselected audio track
and label track with no time range then run an effect, the label track
does get selected (and for example with Change Speed, the labels
get length-adjusted).

I guess "if selection required" is pretty clear.

So, what do we think of "Auto-select if selection required"?


Gale


>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 12:39 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So your vote Cliff is for what shortened wording?
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>> On 8 June 2017 at 14:12, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> If I can interject my thoughts here - Trying to see it as an uninitiated user Auto-select in its various forms to me does not imply what is happening, i.e. the whole audio track is selected. It certainly is not intuitive to my way of thinking.
>>>
>>> Cliff
>>>
>>>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 7:20 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The new nomenclature for "select all if none" is now:
>>>> "Auto-select audio for editing"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) James stated yesterday that this was slightly confusing to him, as he didn't normally
>>>> regard effects as editing.
>>>>
>>>> 2)  Analyzers cetainly aren't editing - but Auto-select applies to them, and the descriptor
>>>> does not convey that.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Worse still is that Auto-select applies to deletion with the keyboard Delete key, Ctrl+K
>>>> and Cut and there is no real indication in the descriptor  that the incautious user with
>>>> Auto-select turned on could inadvertently delete their entire audio.
>>>>
>>>> We know that 3 happens - we have had many posts on the Forum over the years - and we
>>>> know that often the user panics in that situation and has no wknowledge or experience of
>>>> Undo or History and so lose their project contents.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can live with 2 - but 3 is a different matter.  This is why I favoured the terse "Auto-select" as
>>>> the descriptor - that way the unkowledgeable user would be wise to use the new iconic
>>>> help button to read more about Auto-select in the Manual.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We could, of course, deal with 3 by preventing deletion and cut from acting on Auto-select, and
>>>> I think Gale suggested this in a different thread a short while ago.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Peter.
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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Re: Auto-select audio for editing

Cliff Scott

> On Jun 9, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 9 June 2017 at 01:57, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> After following this thread I think the simplest and most informative wording for the general user would be:
>>
>> "Auto-select all if selection required."
>>
>> This gets across the point that it only happens if there is a need for a selection and none exists and that it happens without user intervention. You can't add the word audio because if there are multiple tracks the user may wonder whether it will apply to all tracks or only the selected track.
>>
>> Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.
>
> Thanks, Cliff.
>
> The problem with that is that we don't necessarily select "all". If there
> is a cursor in one selected track and other tracks are not selected,
> we only select all in the selected track.
>
> I'll drop the word "audio". I thought it might be a good idea because
> if you click in a label track then apply an effect, we message that you
> must select some audio. But if you have an unselected audio track
> and label track with no time range then run an effect, the label track
> does get selected (and for example with Change Speed, the labels
> get length-adjusted).
>
> I guess "if selection required" is pretty clear.
>
> So, what do we think of "Auto-select if selection required"?
>

I understand the issue with "all". Similar to using the word "audio". How to make it clear that it is the selected track(s) that gets its content selected without the extra words is the challenge. "Auto-select entire selected track(s) if selection required". This says it all, but we're back to a bunch of words, however it is quite clear what it will do as well. Maybe we just have to live with a longer wording.

Cliff

>
> Gale
>
>
>>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 12:39 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> So your vote Cliff is for what shortened wording?
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8 June 2017 at 14:12, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> If I can interject my thoughts here - Trying to see it as an uninitiated user Auto-select in its various forms to me does not imply what is happening, i.e. the whole audio track is selected. It certainly is not intuitive to my way of thinking.
>>>>
>>>> Cliff
>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 7:20 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The new nomenclature for "select all if none" is now:
>>>>> "Auto-select audio for editing"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) James stated yesterday that this was slightly confusing to him, as he didn't normally
>>>>> regard effects as editing.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2)  Analyzers cetainly aren't editing - but Auto-select applies to them, and the descriptor
>>>>> does not convey that.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) Worse still is that Auto-select applies to deletion with the keyboard Delete key, Ctrl+K
>>>>> and Cut and there is no real indication in the descriptor  that the incautious user with
>>>>> Auto-select turned on could inadvertently delete their entire audio.
>>>>>
>>>>> We know that 3 happens - we have had many posts on the Forum over the years - and we
>>>>> know that often the user panics in that situation and has no wknowledge or experience of
>>>>> Undo or History and so lose their project contents.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I can live with 2 - but 3 is a different matter.  This is why I favoured the terse "Auto-select" as
>>>>> the descriptor - that way the unkowledgeable user would be wise to use the new iconic
>>>>> help button to read more about Auto-select in the Manual.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We could, of course, deal with 3 by preventing deletion and cut from acting on Auto-select, and
>>>>> I think Gale suggested this in a different thread a short while ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Peter.
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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Re: Auto-select audio for editing

Gale
Administrator
On 9 June 2017 at 19:09, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> On Jun 9, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 9 June 2017 at 01:57, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> After following this thread I think the simplest and most informative wording for the general user would be:
>>>
>>> "Auto-select all if selection required."
>>>
>>> This gets across the point that it only happens if there is a need for a selection and none exists and that it happens without user intervention. You can't add the word audio because if there are multiple tracks the user may wonder whether it will apply to all tracks or only the selected track.
>>>
>>> Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.
>>
>> Thanks, Cliff.
>>
>> The problem with that is that we don't necessarily select "all". If there
>> is a cursor in one selected track and other tracks are not selected,
>> we only select all in the selected track.
>>
>> I'll drop the word "audio". I thought it might be a good idea because
>> if you click in a label track then apply an effect, we message that you
>> must select some audio. But if you have an unselected audio track
>> and label track with no time range then run an effect, the label track
>> does get selected (and for example with Change Speed, the labels
>> get length-adjusted).
>>
>> I guess "if selection required" is pretty clear.
>>
>> So, what do we think of "Auto-select if selection required"?
>>
>
> I understand the issue with "all". Similar to using the word "audio". How to make it clear that it is the selected track(s) that gets its content selected without the extra words is the challenge. "Auto-select entire selected track(s) if selection required". This says it all, but we're back to a bunch of words, however it is quite clear what it will do as well. Maybe we just have to live with a longer wording.
>
> Cliff

"Auto-select entire selected track(s) if selection required" is not
quite correct either. That makes it look like there would be no
auto-select if no tracks were selected, whereas the entire project
would be auto-selected.

If you want a flavour of what is auto-selected, perhaps

"Auto-select entire track(s) if selection required".

More accurate (I think un-necessary):

"Auto-select all (or entire selected tracks) if selection required.


Gale

>>>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 12:39 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So your vote Cliff is for what shortened wording?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gale
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 June 2017 at 14:12, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> If I can interject my thoughts here - Trying to see it as an uninitiated user Auto-select in its various forms to me does not imply what is happening, i.e. the whole audio track is selected. It certainly is not intuitive to my way of thinking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cliff
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 7:20 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The new nomenclature for "select all if none" is now:
>>>>>> "Auto-select audio for editing"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) James stated yesterday that this was slightly confusing to him, as he didn't normally
>>>>>> regard effects as editing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2)  Analyzers cetainly aren't editing - but Auto-select applies to them, and the descriptor
>>>>>> does not convey that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) Worse still is that Auto-select applies to deletion with the keyboard Delete key, Ctrl+K
>>>>>> and Cut and there is no real indication in the descriptor  that the incautious user with
>>>>>> Auto-select turned on could inadvertently delete their entire audio.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We know that 3 happens - we have had many posts on the Forum over the years - and we
>>>>>> know that often the user panics in that situation and has no wknowledge or experience of
>>>>>> Undo or History and so lose their project contents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can live with 2 - but 3 is a different matter.  This is why I favoured the terse "Auto-select" as
>>>>>> the descriptor - that way the unkowledgeable user would be wise to use the new iconic
>>>>>> help button to read more about Auto-select in the Manual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We could, of course, deal with 3 by preventing deletion and cut from acting on Auto-select, and
>>>>>> I think Gale suggested this in a different thread a short while ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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Re: Auto-select audio for editing

Cliff Scott

> On Jun 9, 2017, at 2:10 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 9 June 2017 at 19:09, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 9 June 2017 at 01:57, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> After following this thread I think the simplest and most informative wording for the general user would be:
>>>>
>>>> "Auto-select all if selection required."
>>>>
>>>> This gets across the point that it only happens if there is a need for a selection and none exists and that it happens without user intervention. You can't add the word audio because if there are multiple tracks the user may wonder whether it will apply to all tracks or only the selected track.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Cliff.
>>>
>>> The problem with that is that we don't necessarily select "all". If there
>>> is a cursor in one selected track and other tracks are not selected,
>>> we only select all in the selected track.
>>>
>>> I'll drop the word "audio". I thought it might be a good idea because
>>> if you click in a label track then apply an effect, we message that you
>>> must select some audio. But if you have an unselected audio track
>>> and label track with no time range then run an effect, the label track
>>> does get selected (and for example with Change Speed, the labels
>>> get length-adjusted).
>>>
>>> I guess "if selection required" is pretty clear.
>>>
>>> So, what do we think of "Auto-select if selection required"?
>>>
>>
>> I understand the issue with "all". Similar to using the word "audio". How to make it clear that it is the selected track(s) that gets its content selected without the extra words is the challenge. "Auto-select entire selected track(s) if selection required". This says it all, but we're back to a bunch of words, however it is quite clear what it will do as well. Maybe we just have to live with a longer wording.
>>
>> Cliff
>
> "Auto-select entire selected track(s) if selection required" is not
> quite correct either. That makes it look like there would be no
> auto-select if no tracks were selected, whereas the entire project
> would be auto-selected.
>
> If you want a flavour of what is auto-selected, perhaps
>
> "Auto-select entire track(s) if selection required".
>
> More accurate (I think un-necessary):
>
> "Auto-select all (or entire selected tracks) if selection required.
>
>
> Gale

I suppose there's no end to the challenge of saying a lot in a few words without some possibility of misunderstanding. I'll leave it up to you all to tweak as it needs to be.

Cliff

>
>>>>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 12:39 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So your vote Cliff is for what shortened wording?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gale
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 June 2017 at 14:12, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> If I can interject my thoughts here - Trying to see it as an uninitiated user Auto-select in its various forms to me does not imply what is happening, i.e. the whole audio track is selected. It certainly is not intuitive to my way of thinking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 7:20 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The new nomenclature for "select all if none" is now:
>>>>>>> "Auto-select audio for editing"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) James stated yesterday that this was slightly confusing to him, as he didn't normally
>>>>>>> regard effects as editing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2)  Analyzers cetainly aren't editing - but Auto-select applies to them, and the descriptor
>>>>>>> does not convey that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) Worse still is that Auto-select applies to deletion with the keyboard Delete key, Ctrl+K
>>>>>>> and Cut and there is no real indication in the descriptor  that the incautious user with
>>>>>>> Auto-select turned on could inadvertently delete their entire audio.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We know that 3 happens - we have had many posts on the Forum over the years - and we
>>>>>>> know that often the user panics in that situation and has no wknowledge or experience of
>>>>>>> Undo or History and so lose their project contents.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can live with 2 - but 3 is a different matter.  This is why I favoured the terse "Auto-select" as
>>>>>>> the descriptor - that way the unkowledgeable user would be wise to use the new iconic
>>>>>>> help button to read more about Auto-select in the Manual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We could, of course, deal with 3 by preventing deletion and cut from acting on Auto-select, and
>>>>>>> I think Gale suggested this in a different thread a short while ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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