Bug 815 Transcription Toolbar and Transport Toolbar play buttons

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Bug 815 Transcription Toolbar and Transport Toolbar play buttons

Gale
Administrator
Steve wrote in:
http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=815#c15

   "It seems to me that the "play at speed" button is behaving like a
    "momentary action switch", in that it is issuing a command to start
     an action each time it is pressed. (Momentary action switches are
     like doorbell switches - they return to the "Up" position after being
     pressed).

     The "Play" button also appears to be behaving correctly as it
     designed to indicate (by the down position) that Audacity is in
     "play mode"."


So Steve disagrees with Peter and Paul, I think. And meantime this bug
is going round in circles, and I don't think there is enough consensus
to either close or promote the issue..

I think standard Play button has got to be down when playing at speed,
if we want the feature that clicking that button restarts at standard
speed at the editing cursor.

By the same argument Transcription Toolbar does not indicate by
depressing its Play button that you can click that button to restart
play
at speed at the cursor. That seems wrong too, but the visual impact
of having both Play-at-Speed Play button and standard Play button
depressed simultaneously was thought confusing too confusing.

My issue with the current situation is that you can't tell which type of
playback is in force. This will matter when we finally fix Play-at-Speed
to change the speed on the fly and it will matter if we play only the
spectral selection. I think the key to this is therefore letting the current
behaviour stand but indicating somehow which type of playback is in
force. The main Play button already sacrifices indicating that clicking
it starts single play by showing a Loop symbol when there is looped
standard or looped play-at-speed playback. Likewise for Cut Preview.

So how about we indicate speed when not 1.00x on the Play button?
Someone may argue for a temporary waveform display when starting
or changing Play-at-Speed. But then would we want to indicate
playing the spectral selection in the waveform?



Gale

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Re: Bug 815 Transcription Toolbar and Transport Toolbar play buttons

James Crook
I suggest a question on hub to tease out the 'correct' design.

On 4/14/2017 3:10 AM, Gale Andrews wrote:

> Steve wrote in:
> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=815#c15
>
>     "It seems to me that the "play at speed" button is behaving like a
>      "momentary action switch", in that it is issuing a command to start
>       an action each time it is pressed. (Momentary action switches are
>       like doorbell switches - they return to the "Up" position after being
>       pressed).
>
>       The "Play" button also appears to be behaving correctly as it
>       designed to indicate (by the down position) that Audacity is in
>       "play mode"."
>
>
> So Steve disagrees with Peter and Paul, I think. And meantime this bug
> is going round in circles, and I don't think there is enough consensus
> to either close or promote the issue..
>
> I think standard Play button has got to be down when playing at speed,
> if we want the feature that clicking that button restarts at standard
> speed at the editing cursor.
>
> By the same argument Transcription Toolbar does not indicate by
> depressing its Play button that you can click that button to restart
> play
> at speed at the cursor. That seems wrong too, but the visual impact
> of having both Play-at-Speed Play button and standard Play button
> depressed simultaneously was thought confusing too confusing.
>
> My issue with the current situation is that you can't tell which type of
> playback is in force. This will matter when we finally fix Play-at-Speed
> to change the speed on the fly and it will matter if we play only the
> spectral selection. I think the key to this is therefore letting the current
> behaviour stand but indicating somehow which type of playback is in
> force. The main Play button already sacrifices indicating that clicking
> it starts single play by showing a Loop symbol when there is looped
> standard or looped play-at-speed playback. Likewise for Cut Preview.
>
> So how about we indicate speed when not 1.00x on the Play button?
> Someone may argue for a temporary waveform display when starting
> or changing Play-at-Speed. But then would we want to indicate
> playing the spectral selection in the waveform?
>
>
>
> Gale
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>


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Re: Bug 815 Transcription Toolbar and Transport Toolbar play buttons

Peter Sampson-2
In reply to this post by Gale


On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:10 AM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
Steve wrote in:
http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=815#c15

   "It seems to me that the "play at speed" button is behaving like a
    "momentary action switch", in that it is issuing a command to start
     an action each time it is pressed. (Momentary action switches are
     like doorbell switches - they return to the "Up" position after being
     pressed).

     The "Play" button also appears to be behaving correctly as it
     designed to indicate (by the down position) that Audacity is in
     "play mode"."


So Steve disagrees with Peter and Paul, I think. And meantime this bug
is going round in circles, and I don't think there is enough consensus
to either close or promote the issue..

I think standard Play button has got to be down when playing at speed,
if we want the feature that clicking that button restarts at standard
speed at the editing cursor.

That doesn't make any kind of sense at all.  In fact it would seem more logical
that if the Play-at-Speed were button were down and the Play button up - then
clicking on the Play button would abandon Play-at-Speed and initiate normal
Play from the cursor position - and pop up the Play-at-Speed button.

The "problem" that we have with the Play button is the when in normal Play it
is in the down, active, position the is no indication no visual cue that it can be
pressed agin to restart the Play from the cursor position.  Once you knoe that
is the case then that's fine - but there's no way to intuit that from the GUI.

And it's something that I've learned only recently while I've been working on the
Manual.

So I stand strongly by my original stance which is that when Play-at-Speed is
in force the only the Play-at-Speed button should be down and not the normal
Play button too - as in this case the user is not effecting normal play.

The only way I could be persuaded otherwise would be if we had some visual cue
to indicate the playback speed.

Peter.

 

By the same argument Transcription Toolbar does not indicate by
depressing its Play button that you can click that button to restart
play
at speed at the cursor. That seems wrong too, but the visual impact
of having both Play-at-Speed Play button and standard Play button
depressed simultaneously was thought confusing too confusing.

My issue with the current situation is that you can't tell which type of
playback is in force. This will matter when we finally fix Play-at-Speed
to change the speed on the fly and it will matter if we play only the
spectral selection. I think the key to this is therefore letting the current
behaviour stand but indicating somehow which type of playback is in
force. The main Play button already sacrifices indicating that clicking
it starts single play by showing a Loop symbol when there is looped
standard or looped play-at-speed playback. Likewise for Cut Preview.

So how about we indicate speed when not 1.00x on the Play button?
Someone may argue for a temporary waveform display when starting
or changing Play-at-Speed. But then would we want to indicate
playing the spectral selection in the waveform?



Gale

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Re: Bug 815 Transcription Toolbar and Transport Toolbar play buttons

Peter Sampson-2


On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:10 AM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
Steve wrote in:
http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=815#c15

   "It seems to me that the "play at speed" button is behaving like a
    "momentary action switch", in that it is issuing a command to start
     an action each time it is pressed. (Momentary action switches are
     like doorbell switches - they return to the "Up" position after being
     pressed).

     The "Play" button also appears to be behaving correctly as it
     designed to indicate (by the down position) that Audacity is in
     "play mode"."


So Steve disagrees with Peter and Paul, I think. And meantime this bug
is going round in circles, and I don't think there is enough consensus
to either close or promote the issue..

I think standard Play button has got to be down when playing at speed,
if we want the feature that clicking that button restarts at standard
speed at the editing cursor.

That doesn't make any kind of sense at all.  In fact it would seem more logical
that if the Play-at-Speed were button were down and the Play button up - then
clicking on the Play button would abandon Play-at-Speed and initiate normal
Play from the cursor position - and pop up the Play-at-Speed button.

The "problem" that we have with the Play button is the when in normal Play it
is in the down, active, position the is no indication no visual cue that it can be
pressed agin to restart the Play from the cursor position.  Once you knoe that
is the case then that's fine - but there's no way to intuit that from the GUI.

And it's something that I've learned only recently while I've been working on the
Manual.

So I stand strongly by my original stance which is that when Play-at-Speed is
in force the only the Play-at-Speed button should be down and not the normal
Play button too - as in this case the user is not effecting normal play.

The only way I could be persuaded otherwise would be if we had some visual cue
to indicate the playback speed.

It's also more than slightly odd that when in normal Play mode with the Play button
down, when you click on it to prepare to restart play from cursor -  the Play button
pops up - and its only when you release it that it goes down again and play restarts
from the cursor. 

Peter.
 

Peter.

 

By the same argument Transcription Toolbar does not indicate by
depressing its Play button that you can click that button to restart
play
at speed at the cursor. That seems wrong too, but the visual impact
of having both Play-at-Speed Play button and standard Play button
depressed simultaneously was thought confusing too confusing.

My issue with the current situation is that you can't tell which type of
playback is in force. This will matter when we finally fix Play-at-Speed
to change the speed on the fly and it will matter if we play only the
spectral selection. I think the key to this is therefore letting the current
behaviour stand but indicating somehow which type of playback is in
force. The main Play button already sacrifices indicating that clicking
it starts single play by showing a Loop symbol when there is looped
standard or looped play-at-speed playback. Likewise for Cut Preview.

So how about we indicate speed when not 1.00x on the Play button?
Someone may argue for a temporary waveform display when starting
or changing Play-at-Speed. But then would we want to indicate
playing the spectral selection in the waveform?



Gale

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Re: Bug 815 Transcription Toolbar and Transport Toolbar play buttons

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by Peter Sampson-2
On 14 April 2017 at 14:41, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 3:10 AM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Steve wrote in:
>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=815#c15
>>
>>    "It seems to me that the "play at speed" button is behaving like a
>>     "momentary action switch", in that it is issuing a command to start
>>      an action each time it is pressed. (Momentary action switches are
>>      like doorbell switches - they return to the "Up" position after being
>>      pressed).
>>
>>      The "Play" button also appears to be behaving correctly as it
>>      designed to indicate (by the down position) that Audacity is in
>>      "play mode"."
>>
>>
>> So Steve disagrees with Peter and Paul, I think. And meantime this bug
>> is going round in circles, and I don't think there is enough consensus
>> to either close or promote the issue..
>>
>> I think standard Play button has got to be down when playing at speed,
>> if we want the feature that clicking that button restarts at standard
>> speed at the editing cursor.
>
>
> That doesn't make any kind of sense at all.
>  In fact it would seem more logical
> that if the Play-at-Speed were button were down and the Play button up -
> then
> clicking on the Play button would abandon Play-at-Speed and initiate normal
> Play from the cursor position - and pop up the Play-at-Speed button.
>
> The "problem" that we have with the Play button is the when in normal Play
> it
> is in the down, active, position the is no indication no visual cue that it
> can be
> pressed agin to restart the Play from the cursor position.  Once you knoe
> that
> is the case then that's fine - but there's no way to intuit that from the
> GUI.

We could grey out Record when already recording. Then by inference
Play is clickable when already playing.


> And it's something that I've learned only recently while I've been working
> on the
> Manual.
>
> So I stand strongly by my original stance which is that when Play-at-Speed
> is
> in force the only the Play-at-Speed button should be down and not the normal
> Play button too - as in this case the user is not effecting normal play.
>
> The only way I could be persuaded otherwise would be if we had some visual
> cue
> to indicate the playback speed.

So are you vehemently agreeing with my suggestion? Where should the
playback speed be indicated, if we did that?



Gale


> Peter.
>
>
>>
>>
>> By the same argument Transcription Toolbar does not indicate by
>> depressing its Play button that you can click that button to restart
>> play
>> at speed at the cursor. That seems wrong too, but the visual impact
>> of having both Play-at-Speed Play button and standard Play button
>> depressed simultaneously was thought confusing too confusing.
>>
>> My issue with the current situation is that you can't tell which type of
>> playback is in force. This will matter when we finally fix Play-at-Speed
>> to change the speed on the fly and it will matter if we play only the
>> spectral selection. I think the key to this is therefore letting the
>> current
>> behaviour stand but indicating somehow which type of playback is in
>> force. The main Play button already sacrifices indicating that clicking
>> it starts single play by showing a Loop symbol when there is looped
>> standard or looped play-at-speed playback. Likewise for Cut Preview.
>>
>> So how about we indicate speed when not 1.00x on the Play button?
>> Someone may argue for a temporary waveform display when starting
>> or changing Play-at-Speed. But then would we want to indicate
>> playing the spectral selection in the waveform?
>>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

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