Cmd or Cmnd ?

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Cmd or Cmnd ?

Peter Sampson-2
Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
Mac.

We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.

Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use "Ctrl"
thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc contraction
for "Command" key.

We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we choose
but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd" [sic]
and note the lower-case.

Advice and opinions please.

Thanks,
Peter.

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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Gale
Administrator
Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
should too:
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .

And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .



Gale


On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
> shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
> in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
> Mac.
>
> We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>
> Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use "Ctrl"
> thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc contraction
> for "Command" key.
>
> We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we choose
> but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd" [sic]
> and note the lower-case.
>
> Advice and opinions please.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Peter Sampson-2


On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
should too:
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .

Yes, but they are not consistent this way on their keyboard keys - as I stated earlier
my Macbook Pro key is lablled with the contracted "cmd" in lower case and not
capitalized.
 

And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .

Oh no we haven't - one can find instances in the Manual where we have used
sentence-cased "Command" to refere to this button - so that's four ways inconsistent ;-))
 
And note that Microsoft in their shortcut reference use capitalization and not
I really don't think we have to slavishly follow what manufacturers do in their manuals.
Those are their manuals and here we are talking about *our* Manual. 

We can't slavishly follow those two anyway as Mirosoft favours capitalization and
in contrast Mac favours sentence case.

The other reason I do not want us to use "Command" or "COMMAND" for this Mac
key is that there are many places in the manual wher the word "command" is used
in a different context - making such a change for this key could ead to confusion
and error at a later date if and when "Replace text" is applied in the case of the
usage for the button.  I would prefer to take steps now to avoid such potential
confusion,


So again I ask "Cmd" or "Cmnd" ?

I favour the former as that is closest to what is impronted on my MAc keyboard.
 

Gale


On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
> shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
> in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
> Mac.
>
> We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>
> Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use "Ctrl"
> thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc contraction
> for "Command" key.
>
> We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we choose
> but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd" [sic]
> and note the lower-case.
>
> Advice and opinions please.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Gale
Administrator
As I said, we have used "Command" on Keyboard Shortcut Reference
for years. I did not refer to other pages, but I always strive to use
"Command" because I thought that was correct.

"Command" as a shortcut cannot be used on its own, so it should
not confuse users to use the full form. ReplaceText can be set to
exclude instances of "command" that are not in a shortcut.

The Apple keyboard that came with my iMac has "Ctrl" and "Alt"
but no "Cmd" or Cmnd" anywhere, just the Command clover leaf
symbol that appears in the Audacity menus.

And this Apple keyboard has "command":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#/media/File:Apple-wireless-keyboard-aluminum-2007.jpg
.

So I still think "Command" is the closest approximation to "correct"
because whichever contraction we choose, it will be wrong for many
keyboards.

Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
readers.



Gale




On 28 May 2017 at 16:47, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
>> should too:
>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .
>
>
> Yes, but they are not consistent this way on their keyboard keys - as I
> stated earlier
> my Macbook Pro key is lablled with the contracted "cmd" in lower case and
> not
> capitalized.
>
>>
>>
>> And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
>> http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .
>
>
> Oh no we haven't - one can find instances in the Manual where we have used
> sentence-cased "Command" to refere to this button - so that's four ways
> inconsistent ;-))
>
> And note that Microsoft in their shortcut reference use capitalization and
> not
> our Connie-preferred sentence case:
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/126449/keyboard-shortcuts-for-windows
>
> I really don't think we have to slavishly follow what manufacturers do in
> their manuals.
> Those are their manuals and here we are talking about *our* Manual.
>
> We can't slavishly follow those two anyway as Mirosoft favours
> capitalization and
> in contrast Mac favours sentence case.
>
> The other reason I do not want us to use "Command" or "COMMAND" for this Mac
> key is that there are many places in the manual wher the word "command" is
> used
> in a different context - making such a change for this key could ead to
> confusion
> and error at a later date if and when "Replace text" is applied in the case
> of the
> usage for the button.  I would prefer to take steps now to avoid such
> potential
> confusion,
>
>
> So again I ask "Cmd" or "Cmnd" ?
>
> I favour the former as that is closest to what is impronted on my MAc
> keyboard.
>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>> On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
>> > shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
>> > in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
>> > Mac.
>> >
>> > We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>> >
>> > Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use
>> > "Ctrl"
>> > thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc
>> > contraction
>> > for "Command" key.
>> >
>> > We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we
>> > choose
>> > but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd"
>> > [sic]
>> > and note the lower-case.
>> >
>> > Advice and opinions please.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Peter.
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>
>
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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Cliff Scott
In reply to this post by Peter Sampson-2

On May 28, 2017, at 10:47 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
should too:
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .

Yes, but they are not consistent this way on their keyboard keys - as I stated earlier
my Macbook Pro key is lablled with the contracted "cmd" in lower case and not
capitalized.
 

And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .

Oh no we haven't - one can find instances in the Manual where we have used
sentence-cased "Command" to refere to this button - so that's four ways inconsistent ;-))
 
And note that Microsoft in their shortcut reference use capitalization and not
I really don't think we have to slavishly follow what manufacturers do in their manuals.
Those are their manuals and here we are talking about *our* Manual. 

We can't slavishly follow those two anyway as Mirosoft favours capitalization and
in contrast Mac favours sentence case.

The other reason I do not want us to use "Command" or "COMMAND" for this Mac
key is that there are many places in the manual wher the word "command" is used
in a different context - making such a change for this key could ead to confusion
and error at a later date if and when "Replace text" is applied in the case of the
usage for the button.  I would prefer to take steps now to avoid such potential
confusion,


So again I ask "Cmd" or "Cmnd" ?

I favour the former as that is closest to what is impronted on my MAc keyboard.
 

+1

Cliff


Gale


On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
> shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
> in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
> Mac.
>
> We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>
> Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use "Ctrl"
> thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc contraction
> for "Command" key.
>
> We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we choose
> but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd" [sic]
> and note the lower-case.
>
> Advice and opinions please.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Cliff Scott
In reply to this post by Gale
My laptop keyboard has command, but in all correspondence I have regarding Macs or Mac software virtually no one uses command, all use Cmd. I've NEVER seen Cmnd so would throw that one out for sure.

Cliff

> On May 28, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> As I said, we have used "Command" on Keyboard Shortcut Reference
> for years. I did not refer to other pages, but I always strive to use
> "Command" because I thought that was correct.
>
> "Command" as a shortcut cannot be used on its own, so it should
> not confuse users to use the full form. ReplaceText can be set to
> exclude instances of "command" that are not in a shortcut.
>
> The Apple keyboard that came with my iMac has "Ctrl" and "Alt"
> but no "Cmd" or Cmnd" anywhere, just the Command clover leaf
> symbol that appears in the Audacity menus.
>
> And this Apple keyboard has "command":
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#/media/File:Apple-wireless-keyboard-aluminum-2007.jpg
> .
>
> So I still think "Command" is the closest approximation to "correct"
> because whichever contraction we choose, it will be wrong for many
> keyboards.
>
> Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
> already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
> render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
> create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
> better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
> readers.
>
>
>
> Gale
>
>
>
>
> On 28 May 2017 at 16:47, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
>>> should too:
>>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .
>>
>>
>> Yes, but they are not consistent this way on their keyboard keys - as I
>> stated earlier
>> my Macbook Pro key is lablled with the contracted "cmd" in lower case and
>> not
>> capitalized.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
>>> http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .
>>
>>
>> Oh no we haven't - one can find instances in the Manual where we have used
>> sentence-cased "Command" to refere to this button - so that's four ways
>> inconsistent ;-))
>>
>> And note that Microsoft in their shortcut reference use capitalization and
>> not
>> our Connie-preferred sentence case:
>> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/126449/keyboard-shortcuts-for-windows
>>
>> I really don't think we have to slavishly follow what manufacturers do in
>> their manuals.
>> Those are their manuals and here we are talking about *our* Manual.
>>
>> We can't slavishly follow those two anyway as Mirosoft favours
>> capitalization and
>> in contrast Mac favours sentence case.
>>
>> The other reason I do not want us to use "Command" or "COMMAND" for this Mac
>> key is that there are many places in the manual wher the word "command" is
>> used
>> in a different context - making such a change for this key could ead to
>> confusion
>> and error at a later date if and when "Replace text" is applied in the case
>> of the
>> usage for the button.  I would prefer to take steps now to avoid such
>> potential
>> confusion,
>>
>>
>> So again I ask "Cmd" or "Cmnd" ?
>>
>> I favour the former as that is closest to what is impronted on my MAc
>> keyboard.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
>>>> shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
>>>> in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
>>>> Mac.
>>>>
>>>> We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>>>>
>>>> Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use
>>>> "Ctrl"
>>>> thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc
>>>> contraction
>>>> for "Command" key.
>>>>
>>>> We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we
>>>> choose
>>>> but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd"
>>>> [sic]
>>>> and note the lower-case.
>>>>
>>>> Advice and opinions please.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Peter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Gale
Administrator
Official Apple support docs and discussions.apple.com seem to use
the full form "Command" most of the time. Mac System Preferences
uses "Command" consistently. So does our Keyboard Preferences.

I would still suggest "Command" is the best option for the Manual.


Gale


On 28 May 2017 at 20:48, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My laptop keyboard has command, but in all correspondence I have regarding Macs or Mac software virtually no one uses command, all use Cmd. I've NEVER seen Cmnd so would throw that one out for sure.
>
> Cliff
>
>> On May 28, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> As I said, we have used "Command" on Keyboard Shortcut Reference
>> for years. I did not refer to other pages, but I always strive to use
>> "Command" because I thought that was correct.
>>
>> "Command" as a shortcut cannot be used on its own, so it should
>> not confuse users to use the full form. ReplaceText can be set to
>> exclude instances of "command" that are not in a shortcut.
>>
>> The Apple keyboard that came with my iMac has "Ctrl" and "Alt"
>> but no "Cmd" or Cmnd" anywhere, just the Command clover leaf
>> symbol that appears in the Audacity menus.
>>
>> And this Apple keyboard has "command":
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#/media/File:Apple-wireless-keyboard-aluminum-2007.jpg
>> .
>>
>> So I still think "Command" is the closest approximation to "correct"
>> because whichever contraction we choose, it will be wrong for many
>> keyboards.
>>
>> Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
>> already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
>> render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
>> create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
>> better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
>> readers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28 May 2017 at 16:47, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
>>>> should too:
>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, but they are not consistent this way on their keyboard keys - as I
>>> stated earlier
>>> my Macbook Pro key is lablled with the contracted "cmd" in lower case and
>>> not
>>> capitalized.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
>>>> http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh no we haven't - one can find instances in the Manual where we have used
>>> sentence-cased "Command" to refere to this button - so that's four ways
>>> inconsistent ;-))
>>>
>>> And note that Microsoft in their shortcut reference use capitalization and
>>> not
>>> our Connie-preferred sentence case:
>>> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/126449/keyboard-shortcuts-for-windows
>>>
>>> I really don't think we have to slavishly follow what manufacturers do in
>>> their manuals.
>>> Those are their manuals and here we are talking about *our* Manual.
>>>
>>> We can't slavishly follow those two anyway as Mirosoft favours
>>> capitalization and
>>> in contrast Mac favours sentence case.
>>>
>>> The other reason I do not want us to use "Command" or "COMMAND" for this Mac
>>> key is that there are many places in the manual wher the word "command" is
>>> used
>>> in a different context - making such a change for this key could ead to
>>> confusion
>>> and error at a later date if and when "Replace text" is applied in the case
>>> of the
>>> usage for the button.  I would prefer to take steps now to avoid such
>>> potential
>>> confusion,
>>>
>>>
>>> So again I ask "Cmd" or "Cmnd" ?
>>>
>>> I favour the former as that is closest to what is impronted on my MAc
>>> keyboard.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gale
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
>>>>> shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
>>>>> in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
>>>>> Mac.
>>>>>
>>>>> We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use
>>>>> "Ctrl"
>>>>> thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc
>>>>> contraction
>>>>> for "Command" key.
>>>>>
>>>>> We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we
>>>>> choose
>>>>> but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd"
>>>>> [sic]
>>>>> and note the lower-case.
>>>>>
>>>>> Advice and opinions please.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Stevethefiddle
Google search for "Mac cmnd key" returns:
"Showing results for "mac cmd key""

I also don't recall seeing "cmnd" as an abbreviation for the command
key. "Cmd" is very widely used, so my vote is for "Cmd".

Steve

On 29 May 2017 at 20:05, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Official Apple support docs and discussions.apple.com seem to use
> the full form "Command" most of the time. Mac System Preferences
> uses "Command" consistently. So does our Keyboard Preferences.
>
> I would still suggest "Command" is the best option for the Manual.
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 28 May 2017 at 20:48, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> My laptop keyboard has command, but in all correspondence I have regarding Macs or Mac software virtually no one uses command, all use Cmd. I've NEVER seen Cmnd so would throw that one out for sure.
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>>> On May 28, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> As I said, we have used "Command" on Keyboard Shortcut Reference
>>> for years. I did not refer to other pages, but I always strive to use
>>> "Command" because I thought that was correct.
>>>
>>> "Command" as a shortcut cannot be used on its own, so it should
>>> not confuse users to use the full form. ReplaceText can be set to
>>> exclude instances of "command" that are not in a shortcut.
>>>
>>> The Apple keyboard that came with my iMac has "Ctrl" and "Alt"
>>> but no "Cmd" or Cmnd" anywhere, just the Command clover leaf
>>> symbol that appears in the Audacity menus.
>>>
>>> And this Apple keyboard has "command":
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#/media/File:Apple-wireless-keyboard-aluminum-2007.jpg
>>> .
>>>
>>> So I still think "Command" is the closest approximation to "correct"
>>> because whichever contraction we choose, it will be wrong for many
>>> keyboards.
>>>
>>> Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
>>> already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
>>> render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
>>> create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
>>> better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
>>> readers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 May 2017 at 16:47, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
>>>>> should too:
>>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but they are not consistent this way on their keyboard keys - as I
>>>> stated earlier
>>>> my Macbook Pro key is lablled with the contracted "cmd" in lower case and
>>>> not
>>>> capitalized.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
>>>>> http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh no we haven't - one can find instances in the Manual where we have used
>>>> sentence-cased "Command" to refere to this button - so that's four ways
>>>> inconsistent ;-))
>>>>
>>>> And note that Microsoft in their shortcut reference use capitalization and
>>>> not
>>>> our Connie-preferred sentence case:
>>>> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/126449/keyboard-shortcuts-for-windows
>>>>
>>>> I really don't think we have to slavishly follow what manufacturers do in
>>>> their manuals.
>>>> Those are their manuals and here we are talking about *our* Manual.
>>>>
>>>> We can't slavishly follow those two anyway as Mirosoft favours
>>>> capitalization and
>>>> in contrast Mac favours sentence case.
>>>>
>>>> The other reason I do not want us to use "Command" or "COMMAND" for this Mac
>>>> key is that there are many places in the manual wher the word "command" is
>>>> used
>>>> in a different context - making such a change for this key could ead to
>>>> confusion
>>>> and error at a later date if and when "Replace text" is applied in the case
>>>> of the
>>>> usage for the button.  I would prefer to take steps now to avoid such
>>>> potential
>>>> confusion,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So again I ask "Cmd" or "Cmnd" ?
>>>>
>>>> I favour the former as that is closest to what is impronted on my MAc
>>>> keyboard.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gale
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
>>>>>> shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
>>>>>> in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
>>>>>> Mac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use
>>>>>> "Ctrl"
>>>>>> thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc
>>>>>> contraction
>>>>>> for "Command" key.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we
>>>>>> choose
>>>>>> but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd"
>>>>>> [sic]
>>>>>> and note the lower-case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Advice and opinions please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Cliff Scott
In reply to this post by Gale
I suppose if the desire is to be the same as Apple. I was just thinking that most everyone would understand Cmd and it would be shorter, but Command can't be understood so maybe that is better.

Cliff

> On May 29, 2017, at 2:05 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Official Apple support docs and discussions.apple.com seem to use
> the full form "Command" most of the time. Mac System Preferences
> uses "Command" consistently. So does our Keyboard Preferences.
>
> I would still suggest "Command" is the best option for the Manual.
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 28 May 2017 at 20:48, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> My laptop keyboard has command, but in all correspondence I have regarding Macs or Mac software virtually no one uses command, all use Cmd. I've NEVER seen Cmnd so would throw that one out for sure.
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>>> On May 28, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> As I said, we have used "Command" on Keyboard Shortcut Reference
>>> for years. I did not refer to other pages, but I always strive to use
>>> "Command" because I thought that was correct.
>>>
>>> "Command" as a shortcut cannot be used on its own, so it should
>>> not confuse users to use the full form. ReplaceText can be set to
>>> exclude instances of "command" that are not in a shortcut.
>>>
>>> The Apple keyboard that came with my iMac has "Ctrl" and "Alt"
>>> but no "Cmd" or Cmnd" anywhere, just the Command clover leaf
>>> symbol that appears in the Audacity menus.
>>>
>>> And this Apple keyboard has "command":
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#/media/File:Apple-wireless-keyboard-aluminum-2007.jpg
>>> .
>>>
>>> So I still think "Command" is the closest approximation to "correct"
>>> because whichever contraction we choose, it will be wrong for many
>>> keyboards.
>>>
>>> Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
>>> already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
>>> render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
>>> create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
>>> better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
>>> readers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 May 2017 at 16:47, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
>>>>> should too:
>>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but they are not consistent this way on their keyboard keys - as I
>>>> stated earlier
>>>> my Macbook Pro key is lablled with the contracted "cmd" in lower case and
>>>> not
>>>> capitalized.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
>>>>> http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh no we haven't - one can find instances in the Manual where we have used
>>>> sentence-cased "Command" to refere to this button - so that's four ways
>>>> inconsistent ;-))
>>>>
>>>> And note that Microsoft in their shortcut reference use capitalization and
>>>> not
>>>> our Connie-preferred sentence case:
>>>> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/126449/keyboard-shortcuts-for-windows
>>>>
>>>> I really don't think we have to slavishly follow what manufacturers do in
>>>> their manuals.
>>>> Those are their manuals and here we are talking about *our* Manual.
>>>>
>>>> We can't slavishly follow those two anyway as Mirosoft favours
>>>> capitalization and
>>>> in contrast Mac favours sentence case.
>>>>
>>>> The other reason I do not want us to use "Command" or "COMMAND" for this Mac
>>>> key is that there are many places in the manual wher the word "command" is
>>>> used
>>>> in a different context - making such a change for this key could ead to
>>>> confusion
>>>> and error at a later date if and when "Replace text" is applied in the case
>>>> of the
>>>> usage for the button.  I would prefer to take steps now to avoid such
>>>> potential
>>>> confusion,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So again I ask "Cmd" or "Cmnd" ?
>>>>
>>>> I favour the former as that is closest to what is impronted on my MAc
>>>> keyboard.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gale
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
>>>>>> shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
>>>>>> in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
>>>>>> Mac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use
>>>>>> "Ctrl"
>>>>>> thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc
>>>>>> contraction
>>>>>> for "Command" key.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we
>>>>>> choose
>>>>>> but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd"
>>>>>> [sic]
>>>>>> and note the lower-case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Advice and opinions please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Pokechu22-3
I have no preferences between "cmd" and "command" (not a mac user), but if I saw cmnd I would have no idea what it was referring to, so I'd recommend against that.

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
I suppose if the desire is to be the same as Apple. I was just thinking that most everyone would understand Cmd and it would be shorter, but Command can't be understood so maybe that is better.

Cliff

> On May 29, 2017, at 2:05 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Official Apple support docs and discussions.apple.com seem to use
> the full form "Command" most of the time. Mac System Preferences
> uses "Command" consistently. So does our Keyboard Preferences.
>
> I would still suggest "Command" is the best option for the Manual.
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 28 May 2017 at 20:48, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> My laptop keyboard has command, but in all correspondence I have regarding Macs or Mac software virtually no one uses command, all use Cmd. I've NEVER seen Cmnd so would throw that one out for sure.
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>>> On May 28, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> As I said, we have used "Command" on Keyboard Shortcut Reference
>>> for years. I did not refer to other pages, but I always strive to use
>>> "Command" because I thought that was correct.
>>>
>>> "Command" as a shortcut cannot be used on its own, so it should
>>> not confuse users to use the full form. ReplaceText can be set to
>>> exclude instances of "command" that are not in a shortcut.
>>>
>>> The Apple keyboard that came with my iMac has "Ctrl" and "Alt"
>>> but no "Cmd" or Cmnd" anywhere, just the Command clover leaf
>>> symbol that appears in the Audacity menus.
>>>
>>> And this Apple keyboard has "command":
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#/media/File:Apple-wireless-keyboard-aluminum-2007.jpg
>>> .
>>>
>>> So I still think "Command" is the closest approximation to "correct"
>>> because whichever contraction we choose, it will be wrong for many
>>> keyboards.
>>>
>>> Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
>>> already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
>>> render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
>>> create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
>>> better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
>>> readers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 May 2017 at 16:47, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
>>>>> should too:
>>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but they are not consistent this way on their keyboard keys - as I
>>>> stated earlier
>>>> my Macbook Pro key is lablled with the contracted "cmd" in lower case and
>>>> not
>>>> capitalized.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
>>>>> http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh no we haven't - one can find instances in the Manual where we have used
>>>> sentence-cased "Command" to refere to this button - so that's four ways
>>>> inconsistent ;-))
>>>>
>>>> And note that Microsoft in their shortcut reference use capitalization and
>>>> not
>>>> our Connie-preferred sentence case:
>>>> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/126449/keyboard-shortcuts-for-windows
>>>>
>>>> I really don't think we have to slavishly follow what manufacturers do in
>>>> their manuals.
>>>> Those are their manuals and here we are talking about *our* Manual.
>>>>
>>>> We can't slavishly follow those two anyway as Mirosoft favours
>>>> capitalization and
>>>> in contrast Mac favours sentence case.
>>>>
>>>> The other reason I do not want us to use "Command" or "COMMAND" for this Mac
>>>> key is that there are many places in the manual wher the word "command" is
>>>> used
>>>> in a different context - making such a change for this key could ead to
>>>> confusion
>>>> and error at a later date if and when "Replace text" is applied in the case
>>>> of the
>>>> usage for the button.  I would prefer to take steps now to avoid such
>>>> potential
>>>> confusion,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So again I ask "Cmd" or "Cmnd" ?
>>>>
>>>> I favour the former as that is closest to what is impronted on my MAc
>>>> keyboard.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gale
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
>>>>>> shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
>>>>>> in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
>>>>>> Mac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use
>>>>>> "Ctrl"
>>>>>> thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc
>>>>>> contraction
>>>>>> for "Command" key.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we
>>>>>> choose
>>>>>> but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd"
>>>>>> [sic]
>>>>>> and note the lower-case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Advice and opinions please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Cliff Scott
Sorry for the typo. I meant that command can't be MISUNDERSTOOD. I'm sure everyone understood, but boy do I hate it when I do that.

Cliff

On May 29, 2017, at 3:23 PM, Pokechu22 <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have no preferences between "cmd" and "command" (not a mac user), but if I saw cmnd I would have no idea what it was referring to, so I'd recommend against that.

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
I suppose if the desire is to be the same as Apple. I was just thinking that most everyone would understand Cmd and it would be shorter, but Command can't be understood so maybe that is better.

Cliff

> On May 29, 2017, at 2:05 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Official Apple support docs and discussions.apple.com seem to use
> the full form "Command" most of the time. Mac System Preferences
> uses "Command" consistently. So does our Keyboard Preferences.
>
> I would still suggest "Command" is the best option for the Manual.
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 28 May 2017 at 20:48, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> My laptop keyboard has command, but in all correspondence I have regarding Macs or Mac software virtually no one uses command, all use Cmd. I've NEVER seen Cmnd so would throw that one out for sure.
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>>> On May 28, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> As I said, we have used "Command" on Keyboard Shortcut Reference
>>> for years. I did not refer to other pages, but I always strive to use
>>> "Command" because I thought that was correct.
>>>
>>> "Command" as a shortcut cannot be used on its own, so it should
>>> not confuse users to use the full form. ReplaceText can be set to
>>> exclude instances of "command" that are not in a shortcut.
>>>
>>> The Apple keyboard that came with my iMac has "Ctrl" and "Alt"
>>> but no "Cmd" or Cmnd" anywhere, just the Command clover leaf
>>> symbol that appears in the Audacity menus.
>>>
>>> And this Apple keyboard has "command":
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#/media/File:Apple-wireless-keyboard-aluminum-2007.jpg
>>> .
>>>
>>> So I still think "Command" is the closest approximation to "correct"
>>> because whichever contraction we choose, it will be wrong for many
>>> keyboards.
>>>
>>> Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
>>> already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
>>> render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
>>> create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
>>> better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
>>> readers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 May 2017 at 16:47, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
>>>>> should too:
>>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but they are not consistent this way on their keyboard keys - as I
>>>> stated earlier
>>>> my Macbook Pro key is lablled with the contracted "cmd" in lower case and
>>>> not
>>>> capitalized.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
>>>>> http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh no we haven't - one can find instances in the Manual where we have used
>>>> sentence-cased "Command" to refere to this button - so that's four ways
>>>> inconsistent ;-))
>>>>
>>>> And note that Microsoft in their shortcut reference use capitalization and
>>>> not
>>>> our Connie-preferred sentence case:
>>>> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/126449/keyboard-shortcuts-for-windows
>>>>
>>>> I really don't think we have to slavishly follow what manufacturers do in
>>>> their manuals.
>>>> Those are their manuals and here we are talking about *our* Manual.
>>>>
>>>> We can't slavishly follow those two anyway as Mirosoft favours
>>>> capitalization and
>>>> in contrast Mac favours sentence case.
>>>>
>>>> The other reason I do not want us to use "Command" or "COMMAND" for this Mac
>>>> key is that there are many places in the manual wher the word "command" is
>>>> used
>>>> in a different context - making such a change for this key could ead to
>>>> confusion
>>>> and error at a later date if and when "Replace text" is applied in the case
>>>> of the
>>>> usage for the button.  I would prefer to take steps now to avoid such
>>>> potential
>>>> confusion,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So again I ask "Cmd" or "Cmnd" ?
>>>>
>>>> I favour the former as that is closest to what is impronted on my MAc
>>>> keyboard.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gale
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
>>>>>> shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
>>>>>> in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
>>>>>> Mac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use
>>>>>> "Ctrl"
>>>>>> thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc
>>>>>> contraction
>>>>>> for "Command" key.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we
>>>>>> choose
>>>>>> but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd"
>>>>>> [sic]
>>>>>> and note the lower-case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Advice and opinions please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Stevethefiddle
Macworld.co.uk, which comes up a lot in Google search results for Mac issues, use "Command" (upper case "C") when referring to images of the "cmd" key http://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac/keyboard-shortcuts-mac-users-copy-paste-option-shortcuts-3504584/




Steve

On 30 May 2017 at 01:05, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry for the typo. I meant that command can't be MISUNDERSTOOD. I'm sure everyone understood, but boy do I hate it when I do that.

Cliff

On May 29, 2017, at 3:23 PM, Pokechu22 <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have no preferences between "cmd" and "command" (not a mac user), but if I saw cmnd I would have no idea what it was referring to, so I'd recommend against that.

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
I suppose if the desire is to be the same as Apple. I was just thinking that most everyone would understand Cmd and it would be shorter, but Command can't be understood so maybe that is better.

Cliff

> On May 29, 2017, at 2:05 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Official Apple support docs and discussions.apple.com seem to use
> the full form "Command" most of the time. Mac System Preferences
> uses "Command" consistently. So does our Keyboard Preferences.
>
> I would still suggest "Command" is the best option for the Manual.
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 28 May 2017 at 20:48, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> My laptop keyboard has command, but in all correspondence I have regarding Macs or Mac software virtually no one uses command, all use Cmd. I've NEVER seen Cmnd so would throw that one out for sure.
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>>> On May 28, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> As I said, we have used "Command" on Keyboard Shortcut Reference
>>> for years. I did not refer to other pages, but I always strive to use
>>> "Command" because I thought that was correct.
>>>
>>> "Command" as a shortcut cannot be used on its own, so it should
>>> not confuse users to use the full form. ReplaceText can be set to
>>> exclude instances of "command" that are not in a shortcut.
>>>
>>> The Apple keyboard that came with my iMac has "Ctrl" and "Alt"
>>> but no "Cmd" or Cmnd" anywhere, just the Command clover leaf
>>> symbol that appears in the Audacity menus.
>>>
>>> And this Apple keyboard has "command":
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Keyboard#/media/File:Apple-wireless-keyboard-aluminum-2007.jpg
>>> .
>>>
>>> So I still think "Command" is the closest approximation to "correct"
>>> because whichever contraction we choose, it will be wrong for many
>>> keyboards.
>>>
>>> Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
>>> already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
>>> render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
>>> create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
>>> better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
>>> readers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 May 2017 at 16:47, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple consistently use "Command" in their shortcut docs, so we
>>>>> should too:
>>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201236 .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, but they are not consistent this way on their keyboard keys - as I
>>>> stated earlier
>>>> my Macbook Pro key is lablled with the contracted "cmd" in lower case and
>>>> not
>>>> capitalized.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And we have always used COMMAND (when we capitalised) here:
>>>>> http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/keyboard_shortcut_reference.html .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh no we haven't - one can find instances in the Manual where we have used
>>>> sentence-cased "Command" to refere to this button - so that's four ways
>>>> inconsistent ;-))
>>>>
>>>> And note that Microsoft in their shortcut reference use capitalization and
>>>> not
>>>> our Connie-preferred sentence case:
>>>> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/126449/keyboard-shortcuts-for-windows
>>>>
>>>> I really don't think we have to slavishly follow what manufacturers do in
>>>> their manuals.
>>>> Those are their manuals and here we are talking about *our* Manual.
>>>>
>>>> We can't slavishly follow those two anyway as Mirosoft favours
>>>> capitalization and
>>>> in contrast Mac favours sentence case.
>>>>
>>>> The other reason I do not want us to use "Command" or "COMMAND" for this Mac
>>>> key is that there are many places in the manual wher the word "command" is
>>>> used
>>>> in a different context - making such a change for this key could ead to
>>>> confusion
>>>> and error at a later date if and when "Replace text" is applied in the case
>>>> of the
>>>> usage for the button.  I would prefer to take steps now to avoid such
>>>> potential
>>>> confusion,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So again I ask "Cmd" or "Cmnd" ?
>>>>
>>>> I favour the former as that is closest to what is impronted on my MAc
>>>> keyboard.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gale
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28 May 2017 at 14:26, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Connie's recet decision to favour sentence case over capitalization for
>>>>>> shotcut/key/button divs has led me to realize that we are not consistet
>>>>>> in our use of the contracted form of Command key when writing about
>>>>>> Mac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We use both the "Cmd" and the "Cmnd" forms in various places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now while Connie clerly shows that or the Control key we should use
>>>>>> "Ctrl"
>>>>>> thers is no similar example or ruling on what should be be MAc
>>>>>> contraction
>>>>>> for "Command" key.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We really should be consistent in this regard.  I don't mind which we
>>>>>> choose
>>>>>> but I do note that on my Macbook Pro the Command key is labelled "cmd"
>>>>>> [sic]
>>>>>> and note the lower-case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Advice and opinions please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Peter Sampson-2
Gale wrote earlier in this thread:
>Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
>already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
>render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
>create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
>better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
>readers.

I note that James has recently adopted this appoach for the Command key
by providing templats for key and shotcut divs that automagically replace
the text "Cmd" with the cloverleaf symbol.  (And he has made many substitutions
on pages in the Manual to use these).   Thanks for doing that James.

So this answers the basic question with:  
we use Cmd and not Cmnd in key divs/spans and shortcut divs/spans. 

However, in text this still leaves us free to use the full word "Command" when
talking about the "Apple Command key".

Peter.

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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Gale
Administrator
Thanks, James and Peter.

I tested that VoiceOver reads the HTML entity in the templates
as "Command".

NVDA (Windows) does not read it. "Cmd + A" as it appears in
the template is read as "plus A".

If it is deemed important this should work cross-platform on
screen readers, I suggest Connie could say that when using the
shortcut or key template with Cmd, preface this by "Use the
Command key". This will then read out (at least in NVDA) as
"Use the Command key + A".


Gale


On 6 June 2017 at 12:13, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Gale wrote earlier in this thread:
>>Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
>>already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
>>render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
>>create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
>>better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
>>readers.
>
> I note that James has recently adopted this appoach for the Command key
> by providing templats for key and shotcut divs that automagically replace
> the text "Cmd" with the cloverleaf symbol.  (And he has made many
> substitutions
> on pages in the Manual to use these).   Thanks for doing that James.
>
> So this answers the basic question with:
> we use Cmd and not Cmnd in key divs/spans and shortcut divs/spans.
>
> However, in text this still leaves us free to use the full word "Command"
> when
> talking about the "Apple Command key".
>
> I have updated Connie with this change - where it shows examples of usage:
> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Consistency#The_key_highlight
> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Consistency#The_shortcut_highlight
>
> Peter.
>
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

James Crook
If it is deemed important we could make an image for the clover-leaf
symbol and give it a tooltip.  As it is in a template we only have to
make the change in one place.

--James.

On 6/6/2017 8:16 PM, Gale Andrews wrote:

> Thanks, James and Peter.
>
> I tested that VoiceOver reads the HTML entity in the templates
> as "Command".
>
> NVDA (Windows) does not read it. "Cmd + A" as it appears in
> the template is read as "plus A".
>
> If it is deemed important this should work cross-platform on
> screen readers, I suggest Connie could say that when using the
> shortcut or key template with Cmd, preface this by "Use the
> Command key". This will then read out (at least in NVDA) as
> "Use the Command key + A".
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 6 June 2017 at 12:13, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Gale wrote earlier in this thread:
>>> Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
>>> already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
>>> render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
>>> create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
>>> better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for screen
>>> readers.
>> I note that James has recently adopted this appoach for the Command key
>> by providing templats for key and shotcut divs that automagically replace
>> the text "Cmd" with the cloverleaf symbol.  (And he has made many
>> substitutions
>> on pages in the Manual to use these).   Thanks for doing that James.
>>
>> So this answers the basic question with:
>> we use Cmd and not Cmnd in key divs/spans and shortcut divs/spans.
>>
>> However, in text this still leaves us free to use the full word "Command"
>> when
>> talking about the "Apple Command key".
>>
>> I have updated Connie with this change - where it shows examples of usage:
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Consistency#The_key_highlight
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Consistency#The_shortcut_highlight
>>
>> Peter.

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Re: Cmd or Cmnd ?

Gale
Administrator
If it works for screen readers as image plus text in a span, it would
be interesting to see if the image looked better. I an guessing it
would.

I did make a transparent image of the clover leaf about six months
ago:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/File:CmdKey12Transparent.png .

It's larger than the HTML entity and I didn't rotate the image as if it was
italicised, given it was an actual symbol and not text. One for Connie
to decide.


Gale


On 6 June 2017 at 20:33, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If it is deemed important we could make an image for the clover-leaf symbol
> and give it a tooltip.  As it is in a template we only have to make the
> change in one place.
>
> --James.
>
>
> On 6/6/2017 8:16 PM, Gale Andrews wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, James and Peter.
>>
>> I tested that VoiceOver reads the HTML entity in the templates
>> as "Command".
>>
>> NVDA (Windows) does not read it. "Cmd + A" as it appears in
>> the template is read as "plus A".
>>
>> If it is deemed important this should work cross-platform on
>> screen readers, I suggest Connie could say that when using the
>> shortcut or key template with Cmd, preface this by "Use the
>> Command key". This will then read out (at least in NVDA) as
>> "Use the Command key + A".
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>> On 6 June 2017 at 12:13, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Gale wrote earlier in this thread:
>>>>
>>>> Or, we could use the cloverleaf symbol instead of Command which we
>>>> already do in one or two places in the Manual. It's &#8984; but does not
>>>> render very cleanly when boldened in the shortcut template. So we could
>>>> create a template that uses an image instead or handles the boldening
>>>> better. If we do that, we should be sure this is understandable for
>>>> screen
>>>> readers.
>>>
>>> I note that James has recently adopted this appoach for the Command key
>>> by providing templats for key and shotcut divs that automagically replace
>>> the text "Cmd" with the cloverleaf symbol.  (And he has made many
>>> substitutions
>>> on pages in the Manual to use these).   Thanks for doing that James.
>>>
>>> So this answers the basic question with:
>>> we use Cmd and not Cmnd in key divs/spans and shortcut divs/spans.
>>>
>>> However, in text this still leaves us free to use the full word "Command"
>>> when
>>> talking about the "Apple Command key".
>>>
>>> I have updated Connie with this change - where it shows examples of
>>> usage:
>>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Consistency#The_key_highlight
>>>
>>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Consistency#The_shortcut_highlight
>>>
>>> Peter.
>
>
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