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Default / Saved Directories.

James Crook

http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1304
Starting Save or Export directory is not set, so is unwritable or
requires authentication for most users.

was by agreement P1, and is now DEVEL-FIXMADE.  I regard 1305 (which is
P3) as its residual.

http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1305
Improve recall and customisation of starting Save and Export directories.


I wasn't previously aware that the OS would remember such save/export
directories for you.  I had assumed that it if none were set by opening
a project/file it would be CWD, i.e. the working directory associated
with the audacity shortcut.  So fixing 1304 introduced a regression in
that regard since it overrides the OS memory of save directory.

The behaviour I would like is that:

export multiple, export, export labels and saveas separately remember
their directories in audacity.cfg, and update those when a new directory
is chosen on saving.  If not set, they can also update when
importing/loading.

I would go as far as having 'different' export directories for
wav,ogg,mp3,other.  (if the user wants they can all end up being the
same) as that suits my workflow, but I am very ready to be argued down
from that - or for us to end up with some other doer-decides approach to
1305.


I think P3 is the right rating for 1305.  It is (RM hat on) a
distraction from 2.1.3 release at this stage, rather than a tempting
easy fix.

Having this discussion here on quality rather than clutter up the bug
tracker.  If there are strong opinions about what 'the correct fix'
should look like, it's better to have them here than there.


--James.




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Re: Default / Saved Directories.

Peter Sampson-2
James wrote:
>http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1304
>Starting Save or Export directory is not set, so is unwritable or
>requires authentication for most users.
>
>was by agreement P1, and is now DEVEL-FIXMADE.  I regard 1305 (which is
>P3) as its residual.

I am currently on standby waiting for the Windows and Mac nightlies, so that
I can test them on both platforms.

Peter.

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Re: Default / Saved Directories.

Peter Sampson-2
In reply to this post by James Crook
James wrote:
>The behaviour I would like is that:
>
>export multiple, export, export labels and saveas separately remember
>their directories in audacity.cfg, and update those when a new directory
>is chosen on saving.  If not set, they can also update when
>importing/loading.

+1

I fully support this proposal.


>I would go as far as having 'different' export directories for
>wav,ogg,mp3,other.  (if the user wants they can all end up being the
>same) as that suits my workflow, but I am very ready to be argued down
>from that - or for us to end up with some other doer-decides approach to
>1305.

+ weak 0.5

I can see that it could be useful but it is tempered by the fact that users would
then get the default location each time they saved a different filetype.

It also would not suit my workflow (and I suspect I am not alone in doing this).
When I export I normally export a WAV and an MP3 - I uuually want those to go
into the same directory, a directory which changes prer project with a taxonomy
bas on album or radio show - so this proposal would not fit this workflow well.
But of course I could live with it if enogh folk thought it had value and was useful.

James wrote:
>I think P3 is the right rating for 1305.  It is (RM hat on) a
>distraction from 2.1.3 release at this stage, rather than a tempting
>easy fix.

+1 (despite the regression introduced)

But I would like us to agree what the fix should be and get it implemented early in
the next release cycle.

Cheers,
Peter.

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Re: Default / Saved Directories.

Robert Hänggi
+1 to the separation of different file types.
Like Peter, I don't discriminate between Mp3 and Wav but rather
between projects and other media files.
There are other file types that should have there own directory, e.g.
text/xml  files saved from the Nyquist prompt, Plot Spectrum,
Equalization, and debug reports and such.

Robert

2017-01-19 12:50 GMT+01:00, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>:

> James wrote:
>>The behaviour I would like is that:
>>
>>export multiple, export, export labels and saveas separately remember
>>their directories in audacity.cfg, and update those when a new directory
>>is chosen on saving.  If not set, they can also update when
>>importing/loading.
>
> +1
>
> I fully support this proposal.
>
>
>>I would go as far as having 'different' export directories for
>>wav,ogg,mp3,other.  (if the user wants they can all end up being the
>>same) as that suits my workflow, but I am very ready to be argued down
>>from that - or for us to end up with some other doer-decides approach to
>>1305.
>
> + weak 0.5
>
> I can see that it could be useful but it is tempered by the fact that users
> would
> then get the default location each time they saved a different filetype.
>
> It also would not suit my workflow (and I suspect I am not alone in doing
> this).
> When I export I normally export a WAV and an MP3 - I uuually want those to
> go
> into the same directory, a directory which changes prer project with a
> taxonomy
> bas on album or radio show - so this proposal would not fit this workflow
> well.
> But of course I could live with it if enogh folk thought it had value and
> was useful.
>
> James wrote:
>>I think P3 is the right rating for 1305.  It is (RM hat on) a
>>distraction from 2.1.3 release at this stage, rather than a tempting
>>easy fix.
>
> +1 (despite the regression introduced)
>
> But I would like us to agree what the fix should be and get it implemented
> early in
> the next release cycle.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter.
>

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Re: Default / Saved Directories.

Cliff Scott
In reply to this post by James Crook

On Jan 19, 2017, at 5:34 AM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:


The behaviour I would like is that:

export multiple, export, export labels and saveas separately remember 
their directories in audacity.cfg, and update those when a new directory 
is chosen on saving.  If not set, they can also update when 
importing/loading.

I would go as far as having 'different' export directories for 
wav,ogg,mp3,other.  (if the user wants they can all end up being the 
same) as that suits my workflow, but I am very ready to be argued down 
from that - or for us to end up with some other doer-decides approach to 
1305.

+1 from here as well. Like you I don't find a need for different directories based on the export file type, but some may.

Cliff

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Files listed in Open File dialog

Cliff Scott
In reply to this post by James Crook
While we're on the subject of opening/saving directories -

An irritation for me on the Open process is that when the file type of Audacity Project is selected that the dialog lists the .aup and data files as well. In my opinion it should only list the .aup files. In my case I have a number of project files that I keep around for a while in case a need arises for a modification later. This give me a list of a bunch of data file directories along with the .aup files that I have to scroll through to find the one I want. Is this a bug or just a file system limitation?

Cliff
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Re: Files listed in Open File dialog

Peter Sampson-2
+1

I would *love* to see this- it should help to stop folk trying to open the
project data folder or the little .au files. 

And that includes even me from time-to-time when I absent-mindedly try
to opne the data folder <sighs deeply ...>

Not least since we would seem to have a long wait for Unitary Project:
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Proposal_Unitary_Project

We could set the default "File types" to be "Audacity Projects" rather
than all.  This would exclude the .au files - but sadly I think the folders
would still be shown (and this I think is a Windows Explorer "feature").

Peter



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Re: Files listed in Open File dialog

Cliff Scott
At least on the Mac, setting the file type to Audacity Projects still lists the data folders. Ideally it should list only the .aup files.

Cliff

On Jan 19, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

+1

I would *love* to see this- it should help to stop folk trying to open the
project data folder or the little .au files. 

And that includes even me from time-to-time when I absent-mindedly try
to opne the data folder <sighs deeply ...>

Not least since we would seem to have a long wait for Unitary Project:
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Proposal_Unitary_Project

We could set the default "File types" to be "Audacity Projects" rather
than all.  This would exclude the .au files - but sadly I think the folders
would still be shown (and this I think is a Windows Explorer "feature").

Peter


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Re: Files listed in Open File dialog

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by Cliff Scott
Surely showing folders is the behaviour of each platform's standard
open/save dialogue?


Gale


On 19 January 2017 at 13:21, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

> While we're on the subject of opening/saving directories -
>
> An irritation for me on the Open process is that when the file type of Audacity Project is selected that the dialog lists the .aup and data files as well. In my opinion it should only list the .aup files. In my case I have a number of project files that I keep around for a while in case a need arises for a modification later. This give me a list of a bunch of data file directories along with the .aup files that I have to scroll through to find the one I want. Is this a bug or just a file system limitation?
>
> Cliff
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Re: Files listed in Open File dialog

Cliff Scott
Ok. I was hoping there was a way of having a file type specifically *.aup and not so general as Audacity Project. I've seen some dialogs where the file extension was specified.

Cliff

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 9:47 AM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Surely showing folders is the behaviour of each platform's standard
> open/save dialogue?
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 19 January 2017 at 13:21, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> While we're on the subject of opening/saving directories -
>>
>> An irritation for me on the Open process is that when the file type of Audacity Project is selected that the dialog lists the .aup and data files as well. In my opinion it should only list the .aup files. In my case I have a number of project files that I keep around for a while in case a need arises for a modification later. This give me a list of a bunch of data file directories along with the .aup files that I have to scroll through to find the one I want. Is this a bug or just a file system limitation?
>>
>> Cliff
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Re: Default / Saved Directories.

Stevethefiddle
In reply to this post by James Crook
On 19 January 2017 at 11:34, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1304
> Starting Save or Export directory is not set, so is unwritable or
> requires authentication for most users.
>
> was by agreement P1, and is now DEVEL-FIXMADE.  I regard 1305 (which is
> P3) as its residual.
>
> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1305
> Improve recall and customisation of starting Save and Export directories.
>
>
> I wasn't previously aware that the OS would remember such save/export
> directories for you.  I had assumed that it if none were set by opening
> a project/file it would be CWD, i.e. the working directory associated
> with the audacity shortcut.  So fixing 1304 introduced a regression in
> that regard since it overrides the OS memory of save directory.
>
> The behaviour I would like is that:
>
> export multiple, export, export labels and saveas separately remember
> their directories in audacity.cfg, and update those when a new directory
> is chosen on saving.  If not set, they can also update when
> importing/loading.

+1

>
> I would go as far as having 'different' export directories for
> wav,ogg,mp3,other.

-1
I can see the benefits, but I think it will be too confusing, unless
the user sees some explanation of what is happening, which given that
very few users read the manual, I'm not expecting to be the case.

Also I'm unclear how it would actually work. For example,
* if a user exports one project as a WAV file in /Documents/Music/
and then a few days later
* exports another project as an MP3 in /Music/
and then a few days later
* goes to export a project,
then I presume that "MP3" will be the default format and /Music/ will
be the default folder.

What happens if they select WAV as the format? Does the selected
directory change?
What happen if they navigate to a different folder and then change the format?
What happens if they select "Custom FFmpeg" or "external program"?
and most importantly, how can a user be expected to intuit the answers
to these questions?

Steve

> (if the user wants they can all end up being the
> same) as that suits my workflow, but I am very ready to be argued down
> from that - or for us to end up with some other doer-decides approach to
> 1305.
>
>
> I think P3 is the right rating for 1305.  It is (RM hat on) a
> distraction from 2.1.3 release at this stage, rather than a tempting
> easy fix.
>
> Having this discussion here on quality rather than clutter up the bug
> tracker.  If there are strong opinions about what 'the correct fix'
> should look like, it's better to have them here than there.
>
>
> --James.
>
>
>
>
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Re: Files listed in Open File dialog

Peter Sampson-2
In reply to this post by Cliff Scott
I can see a case for listing folders when the "file type" is "Audacity Project"

But *ideally* I'd like to only show such folders as have .aup files within them (at
some level).

But I do realize that this is probably unachievable given the OS tools that we use.

Peter

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Re: Files listed in Open File dialog

Robert Hänggi
It would certainly be achievable with the help of a container format.
Something like the *.zip format without compression.
Robert

2017-01-19 17:39 GMT+01:00, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>:

> I can see a case for listing folders when the "file type" is "Audacity
> Project"
>
> But *ideally* I'd like to only show such folders as have .aup files within
> them (at
> some level).
>
> But I do realize that this is probably unachievable given the OS tools that
> we use.
>
> Peter
>

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Re: Default / Saved Directories.

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by James Crook
On 19 January 2017 at 11:34, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1304
> Starting Save or Export directory is not set, so is unwritable or
> requires authentication for most users.
>
> was by agreement P1, and is now DEVEL-FIXMADE.  I regard 1305 (which is
> P3) as its residual.
>
> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1305
> Improve recall and customisation of starting Save and Export directories.

However that takes no account that a regression on 2.1.2 has been
introduced, which would usually raise the priority of an existing
related bug.

I had proposed in the 1304 bug description that we would only force
the save project path to the docs folder when there is no audacity.cfg
file. This means the first time user of Audacity would still benefit from
Save Project opening in Documents, but thenceforward, Audacity
would use the OS'es last stored save project path and we would not
have a regression.

On Ubuntu 14.04 if 2.1.2 is installed then launched without an
audacity.cfg, Save Project opens in my home folder, but if I run 2.1.2
from its build folder with no audacity.cfg, Save Project opens in the
CWD. Of course that doesn't matter if only those building Audacity
see that, and if so we would not need to make what I had intended
for 1304 to be Mac and Windows only.

If James does not think what I had intended is achievable, then
we would have to accept the regression and fix it holistically
after 2.1.3 by addressing 1305 and I suggest 550 too:
http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=550 .

IMHO, this route means that 1305 would be promoted to P2
now (and RM would decline to fix it) and promoted to P1
after release of 2.1.3. Without P1, I expect realistically that
it might not be fixed for some time.


> I wasn't previously aware that the OS would remember such save/export
> directories for you.

If you recall, this was mentioned in the description of Bug 1304:
http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1304#c0 .

The OS doesn't (in practical terms, anyway) save the export path
because we already save that in audacity.cfg

[Export]
Path=

> I had assumed that it if none were set by opening a project/file
> it would be CWD, i.e. the working directory associated
> with the audacity shortcut.  So fixing 1304 introduced a regression in
> that regard since it overrides the OS memory of save directory.

> The behaviour I would like is that:
>
> export multiple, export, export labels and saveas separately remember
> their directories in audacity.cfg, and update those when a new directory
> is chosen on saving.  If not set, they can also update when
> importing/loading.

This is tied in with bug 550 too which says there should be a preference
to change the export folder to that the last file came from, even if the
folder is already set. This change to the folder the last file came from
already happens for Save Project, without there being a preference.

We might want the export preference to apply to Save Project too.

Bug 550 also suggests a Default user-specified folder for Export
and that could be extended to a Default Save Project folder too.
Perhaps that is not necessary if we get all the other behaviours
right.

In sum, I think 1305 and 550 are intertwined and the correct
approach is to think about them together. So if we allow the 1304
regression into 2.1.3, then de facto 1305 and 550 both become
P1 after release of 2.1.3.


> I would go as far as having 'different' export directories for
> wav,ogg,mp3,other.  (if the user wants they can all end up being the
> same) as that suits my workflow, but I am very ready to be argued down
> from that - or for us to end up with some other doer-decides approach to
> 1305.

So do you mean the current export path in audacity.cfg would be
saved per extension, perhaps with a dozen or more entries (as
many as needed for the number of different formats exported)?

If so, that shouldn't interfere with those who want to use the
same path for all audio file exports, should it?



Gale


> I think P3 is the right rating for 1305.  It is (RM hat on) a
> distraction from 2.1.3 release at this stage, rather than a tempting
> easy fix.
>
> Having this discussion here on quality rather than clutter up the bug
> tracker.  If there are strong opinions about what 'the correct fix'
> should look like, it's better to have them here than there.
>
>
> --James.
>
>
>
>
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Re: Default / Saved Directories.

James Crook
I think relying on the OS to remember the path is bad.  If we want to
remember the path - and it certainly seems we do - then we should use
audacity.cfg.  If the user deletes audacity.cfg then we should forget
the path.

I think the idea of treating absent audacity.cfg as different to absent
entry for export directory is bad logic.  We could have run audacity and
created an audacity.cfg without saving anything.  Why should the next
run behave differently now to the first run with regards to paths?

> In sum, I think 1305 and 550 are intertwined and the correct
> approach is to think about them together. So if we allow the 1304
> regression into 2.1.3, then de facto 1305 and 550 both become
> P1 after release of 2.1.3.
I'm treating 1305 as the 'residual' of 1304, and expecting 1304 to close
without further coding changes.  The regression (in my view) is not so
much a regression, as that an unwanted behaviour (that of Audacity not
choosing a sensible place itself) has been fixed. Audacity now always
chooses a sensible place, rather than rely on defaults that exist
outside Audacity.

So as RM I am allowing the 'regression' into 2.1.3.  If 1305 and 550
really are going to be promoted to P1 at start of 2.1.4, then they
should be made P2 right now - which might be a problem as 550 and 1305
seem to me to be incompatible with each other.  I would think 1305
should be favoured over 550.

550 could be made compatible with 1305 by having options for when/how to
update paths - in the manner you describe.  I think we should not do
that.  We should just remember the last export directory instead.

My thought of paths for export-wav/export-ogg/export-mp3/export-other
don't extend to 'dozens of formats' and based on feedback, and the very
reasonable use cases described, I would now say we should lump all these
export paths together.

--James.




On 1/19/2017 5:58 PM, Gale Andrews wrote:

> On 19 January 2017 at 11:34, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1304
>> Starting Save or Export directory is not set, so is unwritable or
>> requires authentication for most users.
>>
>> was by agreement P1, and is now DEVEL-FIXMADE.  I regard 1305 (which is
>> P3) as its residual.
>>
>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1305
>> Improve recall and customisation of starting Save and Export directories.
> However that takes no account that a regression on 2.1.2 has been
> introduced, which would usually raise the priority of an existing
> related bug.
>
> I had proposed in the 1304 bug description that we would only force
> the save project path to the docs folder when there is no audacity.cfg
> file. This means the first time user of Audacity would still benefit from
> Save Project opening in Documents, but thenceforward, Audacity
> would use the OS'es last stored save project path and we would not
> have a regression.
>
> On Ubuntu 14.04 if 2.1.2 is installed then launched without an
> audacity.cfg, Save Project opens in my home folder, but if I run 2.1.2
> from its build folder with no audacity.cfg, Save Project opens in the
> CWD. Of course that doesn't matter if only those building Audacity
> see that, and if so we would not need to make what I had intended
> for 1304 to be Mac and Windows only.
>
> If James does not think what I had intended is achievable, then
> we would have to accept the regression and fix it holistically
> after 2.1.3 by addressing 1305 and I suggest 550 too:
> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=550 .
>
> IMHO, this route means that 1305 would be promoted to P2
> now (and RM would decline to fix it) and promoted to P1
> after release of 2.1.3. Without P1, I expect realistically that
> it might not be fixed for some time.
>
>
>> I wasn't previously aware that the OS would remember such save/export
>> directories for you.
> If you recall, this was mentioned in the description of Bug 1304:
> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1304#c0 .
>
> The OS doesn't (in practical terms, anyway) save the export path
> because we already save that in audacity.cfg
>
> [Export]
> Path=
>
>> I had assumed that it if none were set by opening a project/file
>> it would be CWD, i.e. the working directory associated
>> with the audacity shortcut.  So fixing 1304 introduced a regression in
>> that regard since it overrides the OS memory of save directory.
>> The behaviour I would like is that:
>>
>> export multiple, export, export labels and saveas separately remember
>> their directories in audacity.cfg, and update those when a new directory
>> is chosen on saving.  If not set, they can also update when
>> importing/loading.
> This is tied in with bug 550 too which says there should be a preference
> to change the export folder to that the last file came from, even if the
> folder is already set. This change to the folder the last file came from
> already happens for Save Project, without there being a preference.
>
> We might want the export preference to apply to Save Project too.
>
> Bug 550 also suggests a Default user-specified folder for Export
> and that could be extended to a Default Save Project folder too.
> Perhaps that is not necessary if we get all the other behaviours
> right.
>
> In sum, I think 1305 and 550 are intertwined and the correct
> approach is to think about them together. So if we allow the 1304
> regression into 2.1.3, then de facto 1305 and 550 both become
> P1 after release of 2.1.3.
>
>
>> I would go as far as having 'different' export directories for
>> wav,ogg,mp3,other.  (if the user wants they can all end up being the
>> same) as that suits my workflow, but I am very ready to be argued down
>> from that - or for us to end up with some other doer-decides approach to
>> 1305.
> So do you mean the current export path in audacity.cfg would be
> saved per extension, perhaps with a dozen or more entries (as
> many as needed for the number of different formats exported)?
>
> If so, that shouldn't interfere with those who want to use the
> same path for all audio file exports, should it?
>
>
>
> Gale
>
>
>> I think P3 is the right rating for 1305.  It is (RM hat on) a
>> distraction from 2.1.3 release at this stage, rather than a tempting
>> easy fix.
>>
>> Having this discussion here on quality rather than clutter up the bug
>> tracker.  If there are strong opinions about what 'the correct fix'
>> should look like, it's better to have them here than there.
>>
>>
>> --James.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Default / Saved Directories.

Peter Sampson-2
James wrote:
>I think relying on the OS to remember the path is bad.  If we want to
>remember the path - and it certainly seems we do - then we should use
>audacity.cfg.  If the user deletes audacity.cfg then we should forget
>the path.

+1

>I think the idea of treating absent audacity.cfg as different to absent
>entry for export directory is bad logic.  We could have run audacity and
>created an audacity.cfg without saving anything.  Why should the next
>run behave differently now to the first run with regards to paths?

+1

Peter.

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Re: Default / Saved Directories.

Peter Sampson-2
I tested this (Bug #1304) P1 bug on W10 and Mac Sirra - passed on both plaforms

Steve tested this as ok on Linux.

So we should be ready to close off this P1 now (Gale),

Peter

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Re: Default / Saved Directories.

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by James Crook
On 19 January 2017 at 19:04, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think relying on the OS to remember the path is bad.  If we want to
> remember the path - and it certainly seems we do - then we should use
> audacity.cfg.

Yes, as I said myself in the description of bug 1305. Some system
administrators have already requested this, and it probably should
already have been so. But presumably there was some reason why
not in the past.

So this is just about introducing a "regression" now, which I was
hoping to avoid.


> If the user deletes audacity.cfg then we should forget the path.

Yes, I suggested that much in the description of bug 1304.


> I think the idea of treating absent audacity.cfg as different to absent
> entry for export directory is bad logic.  We could have run audacity and
> created an audacity.cfg without saving anything.  Why should the next
> run behave differently now to the first run with regards to paths?

My idea to avoid the regression was suggested only for save, not export,
because there is no problem with export.

For 2.1.3, we can't save a "save project" path in audacity.cfg, so the only
available choice is to test for presence/absence of audacity.cfg. This
would mean:

* New users would not have their save project path changed from
  Documents until they changed it themselves.

* Existing users who did not change the save project path in the
  immediate session after resetting preferences would have the
  path changed back from Documents to the OS stored path.
  Not ideal, but it would save at least some users from having to
  manually change the path back to what they wanted.

* It would only be an interim measure as we are agreed we want
  some solution along the lines of 1305 / 550. An interim measure
  would be better in my book than forcing users who don't want to
  save in Documents to change the directory every single time,
  even in the same session.

* Also I might say the current logic is confusing where Save Project
  force opens to Documents every time, but while the project is open,
  Save Project As opens to the OS path (if different).

>> In sum, I think 1305 and 550 are intertwined and the correct
>> approach is to think about them together. So if we allow the 1304
>> regression into 2.1.3, then de facto 1305 and 550 both become
>> P1 after release of 2.1.3.
> I'm treating 1305 as the 'residual' of 1304, and expecting 1304 to close
> without further coding changes.  The regression (in my view) is not so
> much a regression, as that an unwanted behaviour (that of Audacity not
> choosing a sensible place itself) has been fixed.

I would say that the fix did not take into account that it would cause
a clear regression - Audacity no longer remembers changes to its
Save Project directory (or the user's previous default) on Windows
and Mac. Where there is clear agreement about the importance of
a regression, we do sometimes "just fix" the regression. I understand
we don't agree in this case.

> Audacity now always chooses a sensible place, rather than rely
> on defaults that exist outside Audacity.

Regardless, save project path was a default that the user created
themselves, and which was hitherto respected on Windows and
Mac.


> So as RM I am allowing the 'regression' into 2.1.3.

Well, I invited you to lobby the save project problem down from P1.
It is borderline P1/P2 IMO (for my personal workflow, it's P1).


> If 1305 and 550 really are going to be promoted to P1 at start
> of 2.1.4, then they should be made P2 right now

Done for both.

> which might be a problem as 550 and 1305
> seem to me to be incompatible with each other.  I would think 1305
> should be favoured over 550.

Please say why 550 and 1305 are incompatible. They are clearly
complementary to me. We should not favour one use case over
another - we need to be flexible. There are 36 "votes" for the export
path respecting where the file came from.


> 550 could be made compatible with 1305 by having options for when/how to
> update paths - in the manner you describe.  I think we should not do
> that.  We should just remember the last export directory instead.

If the export path changed to respect where the file came from,
we would still remember that changed path next time, and if the
next file came from somewhere else, the path would change again.

So it would not be a default, which has been asked for, but that may
not be necessary.  What you seemed to be asking for with different
export paths per file format did seem to be like a default, as I first
read it.

It also follows that it may not be necessary to have any preference,
though ATM I would recommend it. The export path "could" behave
exactly as the save project path will do when we save it in .cfg (and
as it used to do in 2.1.2) - that is, we allow the path of a loaded file
to change the path, and we remember that change. No choice about
that.

But the core request in 550 should IMO be implemented, just as
saving the project path in audacity.cfg should be implemented.


> My thought of paths for export-wav/export-ogg/export-mp3/export-other
> don't extend to 'dozens of formats' and based on feedback, and the very
> reasonable use cases described, I would now say we should lump all these
> export paths together.

I actually don't think it was a bad idea as long as you were not thinking
of GUI preferences.

I can't understand though why we would lump e.g. FLAC with WMA.


Gale

> On 1/19/2017 5:58 PM, Gale Andrews wrote:
>> On 19 January 2017 at 11:34, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1304
>>> Starting Save or Export directory is not set, so is unwritable or
>>> requires authentication for most users.
>>>
>>> was by agreement P1, and is now DEVEL-FIXMADE.  I regard 1305 (which is
>>> P3) as its residual.
>>>
>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1305
>>> Improve recall and customisation of starting Save and Export directories.
>> However that takes no account that a regression on 2.1.2 has been
>> introduced, which would usually raise the priority of an existing
>> related bug.
>>
>> I had proposed in the 1304 bug description that we would only force
>> the save project path to the docs folder when there is no audacity.cfg
>> file. This means the first time user of Audacity would still benefit from
>> Save Project opening in Documents, but thenceforward, Audacity
>> would use the OS'es last stored save project path and we would not
>> have a regression.
>>
>> On Ubuntu 14.04 if 2.1.2 is installed then launched without an
>> audacity.cfg, Save Project opens in my home folder, but if I run 2.1.2
>> from its build folder with no audacity.cfg, Save Project opens in the
>> CWD. Of course that doesn't matter if only those building Audacity
>> see that, and if so we would not need to make what I had intended
>> for 1304 to be Mac and Windows only.
>>
>> If James does not think what I had intended is achievable, then
>> we would have to accept the regression and fix it holistically
>> after 2.1.3 by addressing 1305 and I suggest 550 too:
>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=550 .
>>
>> IMHO, this route means that 1305 would be promoted to P2
>> now (and RM would decline to fix it) and promoted to P1
>> after release of 2.1.3. Without P1, I expect realistically that
>> it might not be fixed for some time.
>>
>>
>>> I wasn't previously aware that the OS would remember such save/export
>>> directories for you.
>> If you recall, this was mentioned in the description of Bug 1304:
>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1304#c0 .
>>
>> The OS doesn't (in practical terms, anyway) save the export path
>> because we already save that in audacity.cfg
>>
>> [Export]
>> Path=
>>
>>> I had assumed that it if none were set by opening a project/file
>>> it would be CWD, i.e. the working directory associated
>>> with the audacity shortcut.  So fixing 1304 introduced a regression in
>>> that regard since it overrides the OS memory of save directory.
>>> The behaviour I would like is that:
>>>
>>> export multiple, export, export labels and saveas separately remember
>>> their directories in audacity.cfg, and update those when a new directory
>>> is chosen on saving.  If not set, they can also update when
>>> importing/loading.
>> This is tied in with bug 550 too which says there should be a preference
>> to change the export folder to that the last file came from, even if the
>> folder is already set. This change to the folder the last file came from
>> already happens for Save Project, without there being a preference.
>>
>> We might want the export preference to apply to Save Project too.
>>
>> Bug 550 also suggests a Default user-specified folder for Export
>> and that could be extended to a Default Save Project folder too.
>> Perhaps that is not necessary if we get all the other behaviours
>> right.
>>
>> In sum, I think 1305 and 550 are intertwined and the correct
>> approach is to think about them together. So if we allow the 1304
>> regression into 2.1.3, then de facto 1305 and 550 both become
>> P1 after release of 2.1.3.
>>
>>
>>> I would go as far as having 'different' export directories for
>>> wav,ogg,mp3,other.  (if the user wants they can all end up being the
>>> same) as that suits my workflow, but I am very ready to be argued down
>>> from that - or for us to end up with some other doer-decides approach to
>>> 1305.
>> So do you mean the current export path in audacity.cfg would be
>> saved per extension, perhaps with a dozen or more entries (as
>> many as needed for the number of different formats exported)?
>>
>> If so, that shouldn't interfere with those who want to use the
>> same path for all audio file exports, should it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>>> I think P3 is the right rating for 1305.  It is (RM hat on) a
>>> distraction from 2.1.3 release at this stage, rather than a tempting
>>> easy fix.
>>>
>>> Having this discussion here on quality rather than clutter up the bug
>>> tracker.  If there are strong opinions about what 'the correct fix'
>>> should look like, it's better to have them here than there.
>>>
>>>
>>> --James.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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