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External USB Sound Cards

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Phyllis K Day

External USB Sound Cards

So far, here are the recommendations I've received for external USB sound cards:

Edirol UA-1EX and M-Audio Mobile Pre.

Any others to recommend? Checking locally, no one carries any usb sound cards so I'll have to crawl the web.(Or drive two hours round trip to some place that does.) Anyone have favorite vendors like New Egg, Musician's Friend, Sam Ash (online)?

Thanks again for all the replies on audio sound on the new laptop - all very helpful.

Phyllis

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

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* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac computer)

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
connected to the computer?

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Mitch Hill

Re: External USB Sound Cards

Phyllis,

At 11:40 PM 11/3/2010 -0400, you wrote:

So far, here are the recommendations I've received for external USB sound cards:

Edirol UA-1EX and M-Audio Mobile Pre.

Any others to recommend? Checking locally, no one carries any usb sound cards so I'll have to crawl the web.(Or drive two hours round trip to some place that does.) Anyone have favorite vendors like New Egg, Musician's Friend, Sam Ash (online)?

Company I use is "Sweetwater Sound" (www.sweetwater.com) and AJ Petersen is a good contact in the sales department. These folks have treated me very well, they stand behind what they sell, a fact I have tested on several occasions. They stock both Edirol & M-Audio as well as many other brands as well as a line of desktop PC's made specifically for sound use.

AJ Petersen can be reached at 800-222-4700, Ext. 1348

Thanks,

Mitch & Shadow...

http://www.4shared.com/dir/UTASxktL/wildlife.html

Shadow's area: http://www.4shared.com/dir/ecfWjyZb/Shadow.html

Phyllis K Day

Re: External USB Sound Cards

In reply to this post by Phyllis K Day

I spoke with Sweetwater and they said that my pre-amp was indeed acting as a "sound card" and I didn't need the Edirol or M-Audo.

So I ran an idea that I got from a client that would take all of this out of the computer "loop" and that is to use a digital recorder as a separate piece. Sweetwater suggested a Zoom H4N - and this would mean I could use any version of Audacity with any computer - because I would record without the computer and then load the tracks into Audacity for editing. It wouldn't matter what kind of computer or what version. I LOVE this idea. Granted it puts another step in the process but it makes everything very portable and version-proof.

Opinions? I really need to stop being a tech person and get back to work. I'm "this close" to getting the Zoom.

Phyllis

-----Original Message-----
From: Mitch Hill
Company I use is "Sweetwater Sound"

They stock both Edirol & M-Audio as well as many other brands as well as a line of desktop PC's made specifically for sound use.

Jan Stary

Re: External USB Sound Cards

On Nov 04 12:48:08, Phyllis K. Day wrote:
> <HEAD>
> <STYLE>body{font-family: Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color: #ffffff;color: black;}</STYLE>
>
> <META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.18975"></HEAD>
> <BODY id=compText>
> <P><BR>I spoke with Sweetwater and they said that my pre-amp was indeed acting as a "sound card" and I didn't need the Edirol or M-Audo. </P>
> <P>So I ran an idea that I got from a client that would take all of this out of the computer "loop" and that is to use a digital recorder as a separate piece. Sweetwater suggested a Zoom H4N - and this would mean I could use any version of Audacity with any computer - because I would record without the computer and then load the tracks into Audacity for editing. It wouldn't matter what kind of computer or what version. I LOVE this idea. Granted it puts another step in the process but it makes everything very portable and version-proof.</P>
> <P>Opinions? I really need to stop being a tech person and get back to work. I'm "this close" to getting the Zoom.</P>

Firsrt of all, don't send html emails to maling lists.

Until now it looked you are unhappy with your soundcard an are looking
for another one. People sent you recommendations. Now you say you do
not need another sound card;, what was it again that you weere asking?

If you want a portable recorder, I can recommend
the M-Audio Microtrack II - the sound is realy clean.

>From sound-software's point of view, what comes out
of your recorder (whether ZOOM or other) is just a WAV file.
If it'better to be portable with an external recorder,
or if it's better to not have to transfer the files
from the recorder into the software depends entirely
on your situation, which we know absolutely nothing about;
except you maybe want an external USB card; or maybe you don't.
Why do I waste my time on this?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

When asking for help on this list, please include the following information, so we can
help you properly:

* What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)

* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac computer)

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
connected to the computer?

Mailing list: [hidden email]
To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
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Bob van der Poel

Re: External USB Sound Cards

In reply to this post by Phyllis K Day

Phyllis ... I'd add my complete support to the H4N suggestion. I
created my album completely with this method of recording (using a
H4). After doing recording on the H4 I simply transfered them to my
(Linux) computer and used audacity to do the editing.

If you want to listen to the results, visit my site www.mellowood.ca

There are a number of sample in the CD tab and full songs in the
music>recording section.

It might be that I'm not too smart, but I've never had a lot of
success recording to a computer.

Hope this helps.

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Phyllis K. Day <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I spoke with Sweetwater and they said that my pre-amp was indeed acting as a
> "sound card" and I didn't need the Edirol or M-Audo.
>
> So I ran an idea that I got from a client that would take all of this out of
> the computer "loop" and that is to use a digital recorder as a separate
> piece. Sweetwater suggested a Zoom H4N - and this would mean I could use any
> version of Audacity with any computer - because I would record without the
> computer and then load the tracks into Audacity for editing. It wouldn't
> matter what kind of computer or what version. I LOVE this idea. Granted it
> puts another step in the process but it makes everything very portable and
> version-proof.
>
> Opinions? I really need to stop being a tech person and get back to work.
> I'm "this close" to getting the Zoom.
>
> Phyllis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mitch Hill
> Company I use is "Sweetwater Sound"
>
> They stock both Edirol & M-Audio as well as many other brands as well as a
> line of desktop PC's made specifically for sound use.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
> David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
> Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
> business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
> *********** ASKING FOR HELP *************
>
> When asking for help on this list, please include the following information,
> so we can
> help you properly:
>
> * What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X
> 10.5.1)
>
> * Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help >
> About
> Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac computer)
>
> * If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and
> how is it
> connected to the computer?
>
> Mailing list: [hidden email]
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users
>

--
**** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars ****
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: [hidden email]
WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

When asking for help on this list, please include the following information, so we can
help you properly:

* What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)

* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac computer)

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
connected to the computer?

Mailing list: [hidden email]
To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users

Gale

Re: External USB Sound Cards

Administrator

In reply to this post by Phyllis K Day

On Thu, 4 Nov 2010 12:48:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
"Phyllis K. Day" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I spoke with Sweetwater and they said that my pre-amp was
> indeed acting as a "sound card" and I didn't need the Edirol or
> M-Audo.
> So I ran an idea that I got from a client that would take all of this
> out of the computer "loop" and that is to use a digital recorder as
> a separate piece. Sweetwater suggested a Zoom H4N - and this
> would mean I could use any version of Audacity with any computer -
> because I would record without the computer and then load the
> tracks into Audacity for editing. It wouldn't matter what kind of
> computer or what version. I LOVE this idea. Granted it puts another
> step in the process but it makes everything very portable and
> version-proof.

Zoom H4N seems a good choice given you record away from the
computer anyway. It has a USB cable for dragging the files off the
recorder into the computer. And it also acts a recording interface for
the computer, so if you ever want to record with it into Audacity using
the USB cable, it gives you what should be a higher quality option than
the motherboard sound device. Of course, recording with the USB
cable may have a little more noise than recording direct into Zoom.

Gale

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

When asking for help on this list, please include the following information, so we can
help you properly:

* What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)

* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac computer)

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
connected to the computer?

Mailing list: [hidden email]
To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users

Jan Stary

Re: External USB Sound Cards

> > I spoke with Sweetwater and they said that my pre-amp was
> > indeed acting as a "sound card" and I didn't need the Edirol or
> > M-Audo.
> > So I ran an idea that I got from a client that would take all of this
> > out of the computer "loop" and that is to use a digital recorder as
> > a separate piece. Sweetwater suggested a Zoom H4N - and this
> > would mean I could use any version of Audacity with any computer -
> > because I would record without the computer and then load the
> > tracks into Audacity for editing. It wouldn't matter what kind of
> > computer or what version. I LOVE this idea. Granted it puts another
> > step in the process but it makes everything very portable and
> > version-proof.
>
> Zoom H4N seems a good choice given you record away from the
> computer anyway.

I have been considering the ZOOM recorders before I bought my
M-Audio Microtrack. has anyone used both, and would you care
to give some comparison?

> It has a USB cable for dragging the files off the
> recorder into the computer.

Every handheld recorder made in the last millenium has this.

> And it also acts a recording interface for
> the computer, so if you ever want to record with it into Audacity using
> the USB cable, it gives you what should be a higher quality option than
> the motherboard sound device.

Yes, most probably.

> Of course, recording with the USB
> cable may have a little more noise than recording direct into Zoom.

This is (yet again) complete nonsense. You don't record with the USB
cable, you record with the ADCs of your device. That is, you record
with the same machinery as when you record with the ZOOM separately.
What travels over the USB cable is already digitized audio data
(digitized by ADC of the ZOOM, before it starts travelling the cable).
There is no noise to be introduced after that stage. Which is one of the
fundamental features of digital audio, capisce?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

When asking for help on this list, please include the following information, so we can
help you properly:

* What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)

* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac computer)

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
connected to the computer?

Mailing list: [hidden email]
To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users

Allistair Bywater

Re: External USB Sound Cards

Any chance of getting this rude and arrogant person off the list?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Stary" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: 05 November 2010 09:22
Subject: Re: [Audacity-users] External USB Sound Cards

>> > I spoke with Sweetwater and they said that my pre-amp was
>> > indeed acting as a "sound card" and I didn't need the Edirol or
>> > M-Audo.
>> > So I ran an idea that I got from a client that would take all of this
>> > out of the computer "loop" and that is to use a digital recorder as
>> > a separate piece. Sweetwater suggested a Zoom H4N - and this
>> > would mean I could use any version of Audacity with any computer -
>> > because I would record without the computer and then load the
>> > tracks into Audacity for editing. It wouldn't matter what kind of
>> > computer or what version. I LOVE this idea. Granted it puts another
>> > step in the process but it makes everything very portable and
>> > version-proof.
>>
>> Zoom H4N seems a good choice given you record away from the
>> computer anyway.
>
> I have been considering the ZOOM recorders before I bought my
> M-Audio Microtrack. has anyone used both, and would you care
> to give some comparison?
>
>> It has a USB cable for dragging the files off the
>> recorder into the computer.
>
> Every handheld recorder made in the last millenium has this.
>
>> And it also acts a recording interface for
>> the computer, so if you ever want to record with it into Audacity using
>> the USB cable, it gives you what should be a higher quality option than
>> the motherboard sound device.
>
> Yes, most probably.
>
>> Of course, recording with the USB
>> cable may have a little more noise than recording direct into Zoom.
>
> This is (yet again) complete nonsense. You don't record with the USB
> cable, you record with the ADCs of your device. That is, you record
> with the same machinery as when you record with the ZOOM separately.
> What travels over the USB cable is already digitized audio data
> (digitized by ADC of the ZOOM, before it starts travelling the cable).
> There is no noise to be introduced after that stage. Which is one of the
> fundamental features of digital audio, capisce?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
> David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
> Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
> business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
> *********** ASKING FOR HELP *************
>
> When asking for help on this list, please include the following
> information, so we can
> help you properly:
>
> * What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X
> 10.5.1)
>
> * Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help
> > About
> Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac computer)
>
> * If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with,
> and how is it
> connected to the computer?
>
> Mailing list: [hidden email]
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users

Ng Oon-Ee

Re: External USB Sound Cards

On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 19:07 +0000, Allistair Bywater wrote:
> Any chance of getting this rude and arrogant person off the list?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Stary" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 05 November 2010 09:22
> Subject: Re: [Audacity-users] External USB Sound Cards

If you don't like what he says don't read it. Don't you think its a bit
childish to ask he be kicked?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

When asking for help on this list, please include the following information, so we can
help you properly:

* What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)

* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac computer)

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
connected to the computer?

Mailing list: [hidden email]
To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users

Gale

Re: External USB Sound Cards

Administrator

In reply to this post by Jan Stary

On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 10:22:08 +0100
Jan Stary <[hidden email]> wrote:

No. Many digital portable recorders (especially those primarily intended
for speech and note taking) do not have a USB cable:
http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/2581_2620.htm
http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/2581_2616.htm

> > Of course, recording with the USB
> > cable may have a little more noise than recording direct into Zoom.
>
> This is (yet again) complete nonsense. You don't record with the USB
> cable, you record with the ADCs of your device. That is, you record
> with the same machinery as when you record with the ZOOM separately.
> What travels over the USB cable is already digitized audio data
> (digitized by ADC of the ZOOM, before it starts travelling the cable).
> There is no noise to be introduced after that stage. Which is one of the
> fundamental features of digital audio, capisce?

I probably didn't make it very clear, but I was thinking of noise induced
by the USB transmission. This can be significant, as anyone recording
from USB turntables or cassette decks will know.

Gale

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

When asking for help on this list, please include the following information, so we can
help you properly:

* What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)

* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac computer)

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
connected to the computer?

Mailing list: [hidden email]
To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users

Stevethefiddle

Re: External USB Sound Cards

The Edirol UA1-EX is a very nice external USB sound card at a fairly low price. I've been quite tempted to buy one of these myself, but I already have a Behringer UCA-202 (which is good, but very basic) so I can't really justify the additional expense for myself.

The UA1-EX is no longer manufactured but you may still be able to pick one up if you look around.

Another option that have good reviews are the ART USB pre-amps.

I've got a Zoom H2 which I am very pleased with. It's smaller and cheaper than the H4, so if you're only looking for single track recording (mono or stereo) the H2 may be worth considering.
The H2 can also be used as a USB microphone and is pretty good quality for this. The main problem with using it with USB is that you cannot get far away from computer, so even with a reasonably quiet laptop it will still pick up fan noise. The H2 is pretty well immune to noise from the USB, but I have seen (heard) that to be a problem with some USB microphones, particularly with laptop computers running from their external power supply rather than batteries.

The H2 can be used with an external microphone (mono or stereo) connected via a mini-jack socket.

Mitch Hill

Re: External USB Sound Cards

At 05:00 AM 11/6/2010 -0700, you wrote:

The UA1-EX is no longer manufactured but you may still be able to pick one
up if you look around.

Steve,

Are you sure this is no longer being manufactured or is it another of the Edirol products caught up in the Roland brand name change over?

Recently I was looking at an Edirol recorder and read on a forum that it had been discontinued. A quick call to the dealer I use brought the explanation that Roland is dropping the "Edirol" brand name and rebranding many of the Edirol products under the Roland name.

I have not followed up on this further so have no confirmation however the dealer I use has proven to be very reliable in his information.

Thanks,

Mitch & Shadow...

http://www.4shared.com/dir/UTASxktL/wildlife.html

Shadow's area: http://www.4shared.com/dir/ecfWjyZb/Shadow.html

Stevethefiddle

Re: External USB Sound Cards

You're quite correct that Roland is dropping the "Edirol" brand name and rebranding many of the Edirol products under the Roland name. At the moment it is a bit unclear which Edirol products will remain in the Roland product line and their website is looking rather sparse at the moment.

I think the UA1-EX was dropped shortly before these changes and replaced by the UA-1G which is marketed under the Cakewalk brand name. The UA-1G is said to have similar functionality to the UA1-EX but with the addition of an input specifically for guitars, and a "more ergonomic" gain control.
The product page is here: http://www.cakewalk.com/products/hardware/default.aspx?Prod=UA-1G

We are trying to build up a collection of reviews of sound cards used with Audacity on the Audacity forum, so if anyone would like to contribute, please sign up for the forum and post your reviews.
General sound cards: http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9477
Multi-channel sound cards: http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=38626
(needless to say this is not an invitation for spam - its an invitation for genuine Audacity users to share their knowledge and experience with other Audacity users).

Al Dimond

Re: External USB Sound Cards

In reply to this post by Allistair Bywater

On Friday, November 05, 2010 12:07:10 Allistair Bywater wrote:
> Any chance of getting this rude and arrogant person off the list?
>

>From what I've read of these discussions, this "rude and arrogant"
person actually has a clue about the technical issues involved. This
discussion (not to mention the other, related one) is plagued by
people speaking nonsense in authoritative tones. That's frustrating to
people that understand the issues and misleading to those that don't.
Rather than trying to ban someone, why can't we all stop speaking
authoritatively on things we don't know much about? For Gale, this
might include OS architecture, and the effect of electrical
interference on digital signals.

- Al

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Stary" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 05 November 2010 09:22
> Subject: Re: [Audacity-users] External USB Sound Cards
>
> >> > I spoke with Sweetwater and they said that my pre-amp was
> >> > indeed acting as a "sound card" and I didn't need the Edirol
> >> > or M-Audo.
> >> > So I ran an idea that I got from a client that would take all
> >> > of this out of the computer "loop" and that is to use a
> >> > digital recorder as a separate piece. Sweetwater suggested a
> >> > Zoom H4N - and this would mean I could use any version of
> >> > Audacity with any computer - because I would record without
> >> > the computer and then load the tracks into Audacity for
> >> > editing. It wouldn't matter what kind of computer or what
> >> > version. I LOVE this idea. Granted it puts another step in
> >> > the process but it makes everything very portable and
> >> > version-proof.
> >>
> >> Zoom H4N seems a good choice given you record away from the
> >> computer anyway.
> >
> > I have been considering the ZOOM recorders before I bought my
> > M-Audio Microtrack. has anyone used both, and would you care
> > to give some comparison?
> >
> >> It has a USB cable for dragging the files off the
> >> recorder into the computer.
> >
> > Every handheld recorder made in the last millenium has this.
> >
> >> And it also acts a recording interface for
> >> the computer, so if you ever want to record with it into
> >> Audacity using the USB cable, it gives you what should be a
> >> higher quality option than the motherboard sound device.
> >
> > Yes, most probably.
> >
> >> Of course, recording with the USB
> >> cable may have a little more noise than recording direct into
> >> Zoom.
> >
> > This is (yet again) complete nonsense. You don't record with the
> > USB cable, you record with the ADCs of your device. That is, you
> > record with the same machinery as when you record with the ZOOM
> > separately. What travels over the USB cable is already digitized
> > audio data (digitized by ADC of the ZOOM, before it starts
> > travelling the cable). There is no noise to be introduced after
> > that stage. Which is one of the fundamental features of digital
> > audio, capisce?
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth:
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> >
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> > using (Help
> >
> > > About
> >
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> >
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> >
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Josiah Krutz

Re: External USB Sound Cards

I second that. Try complementing one another, It does work!

--Josiah

On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Al Dimond <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Friday, November 05, 2010 12:07:10 Allistair Bywater wrote:
> Any chance of getting this rude and arrogant person off the list?
>

>From what I've read of these discussions, this "rude and arrogant"
person actually has a clue about the technical issues involved. This
discussion (not to mention the other, related one) is plagued by
people speaking nonsense in authoritative tones. That's frustrating to
people that understand the issues and misleading to those that don't.
Rather than trying to ban someone, why can't we all stop speaking
authoritatively on things we don't know much about? For Gale, this
might include OS architecture, and the effect of electrical
interference on digital signals.

- Al

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Stary" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 05 November 2010 09:22
> Subject: Re: [Audacity-users] External USB Sound Cards
>
> >> > I spoke with Sweetwater and they said that my pre-amp was
> >> > indeed acting as a "sound card" and I didn't need the Edirol
> >> > or M-Audo.
> >> > So I ran an idea that I got from a client that would take all
> >> > of this out of the computer "loop" and that is to use a
> >> > digital recorder as a separate piece. Sweetwater suggested a
> >> > Zoom H4N - and this would mean I could use any version of
> >> > Audacity with any computer - because I would record without
> >> > the computer and then load the tracks into Audacity for
> >> > editing. It wouldn't matter what kind of computer or what
> >> > version. I LOVE this idea. Granted it puts another step in
> >> > the process but it makes everything very portable and
> >> > version-proof.
> >>
> >> Zoom H4N seems a good choice given you record away from the
> >> computer anyway.
> >
> > I have been considering the ZOOM recorders before I bought my
> > M-Audio Microtrack. has anyone used both, and would you care
> > to give some comparison?
> >
> >> It has a USB cable for dragging the files off the
> >> recorder into the computer.
> >
> > Every handheld recorder made in the last millenium has this.
> >
> >> And it also acts a recording interface for
> >> the computer, so if you ever want to record with it into
> >> Audacity using the USB cable, it gives you what should be a
> >> higher quality option than the motherboard sound device.
> >
> > Yes, most probably.
> >
> >> Of course, recording with the USB
> >> cable may have a little more noise than recording direct into
> >> Zoom.
> >
> > This is (yet again) complete nonsense. You don't record with the
> > USB cable, you record with the ADCs of your device. That is, you
> > record with the same machinery as when you record with the ZOOM
> > separately. What travels over the USB cable is already digitized
> > audio data (digitized by ADC of the ZOOM, before it starts
> > travelling the cable). There is no noise to be introduced after
> > that stage. Which is one of the fundamental features of digital
> > audio, capisce?
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth:
> > New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the
> > best-selling book "Blueprint to a Billion" shares his insights
> > and actions to help propel your business during the next growth
> > cycle. Listen Now!
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
> > *********** ASKING FOR HELP *************
> >
> > When asking for help on this list, please include the following
> > information, so we can
> > help you properly:
> >
> > * What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or
> > Mac OS X 10.5.1)
> >
> > * Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are
> > using (Help
> >
> > > About
> >
> > Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac computer)
> >
> > * If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are
> > recording with, and how is it
> >
> > connected to the computer?
> >
> > Mailing list: [hidden email]
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New
> Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book
> "Blueprint to a Billion" shares his insights and actions to help
> propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
> *********** ASKING FOR HELP *************
>
> When asking for help on this list, please include the following
> information, so we can help you properly:
>
> * What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or
> Mac OS X 10.5.1)
>
> * Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using
> (Help > About Audacity, or Audacity > About Audacity on a Mac
> computer)
>
> * If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording
> with, and how is it connected to the computer?
>
> Mailing list: [hidden email]
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
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Gale

Re: External USB Sound Cards

Administrator

In reply to this post by Al Dimond

On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 11:20:32 -0700
Al Dimond <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Friday, November 05, 2010 12:07:10 Allistair Bywater wrote:
> > Any chance of getting this rude and arrogant person off the list?
> >
>
> >From what I've read of these discussions, this "rude and arrogant"
> person actually has a clue about the technical issues involved. This
> discussion (not to mention the other, related one) is plagued by
> people speaking nonsense in authoritative tones. That's frustrating to
> people that understand the issues and misleading to those that don't.
> Rather than trying to ban someone, why can't we all stop speaking
> authoritatively on things we don't know much about? For Gale, this
> might include OS architecture, and the effect of electrical
> interference on digital signals.

For myself, I'm always learning more and considering opinions.

I would suggest though that people who "understand the issues" might
want to explain their understanding (as you have done) rather than
just state someone's opinion is rubbish, so implying that it could never
be true. Of course, what Colin was talking about was not necessarily
relevant to the original poster's question, but the way Jan answered
it made me have to step in.

What Colin stated (that adding extra RAM can sometimes seem to make
the audio device produce less noise) is I believe true, as far as it goes.
It can and does happen on Windows with motherboard sound devices
and crappy drivers; I have seen it happen myself once on one of my
machines, and FWIW this same suggestion was made to me initially
years ago by someone with computer science and audio engineering
qualifications. Was I misled?

For example:

> > >> Of course, recording with the USB
> > >> cable may have a little more noise than recording direct into
> > >> Zoom.
> > >
> > > This is (yet again) complete nonsense. You don't record with the
> > > USB cable, you record with the ADCs of your device. That is, you
> > > record with the same machinery as when you record with the ZOOM
> > > separately. What travels over the USB cable is already digitized
> > > audio data (digitized by ADC of the ZOOM, before it starts
> > > travelling the cable). There is no noise to be introduced after
> > > that stage. Which is one of the fundamental features of digital
> > > audio, capisce?

Are you (Al or Jan) suggesting there could never be USB transmission
noise if you connected the Zoom to the computer? That was my only
point, though I didn't clarify what I meant first time round. Unless you're
suggesting there can't be added USB noise, what's written there (while
true in itself) is IMO partial and misleading. Can you clarify?

So I would say, keep it polite first and foremost, and if you're going to
disagree, say why.

Gale

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Monty Montgomery

Re: External USB Sound Cards

In reply to this post by Jan Stary

>> Of course, recording with the USB
>> cable may have a little more noise than recording direct into Zoom.
>
> This is (yet again) complete nonsense. You don't record with the USB
> cable, you record with the ADCs of your device. That is, you record
> with the same machinery as when you record with the ZOOM separately.
> What travels over the USB cable is already digitized audio data
> (digitized by ADC of the ZOOM, before it starts travelling the cable).
> There is no noise to be introduced after that stage. Which is one of the
> fundamental features of digital audio, capisce?

The 'digital side' of the circuit can leak quite a bit of noise into
the analog side if it's not properly designed and implemented. That
USB cable can also make a nice antenna depending on how the shield if
there is one is grounded (just hold an iPhone up to it while the
bugger is downloading something). The power supply can also be a
source of noise. This is all trivial to test with a realtime spectrum
analyzer app; just 'record' a resistor and watch. RF leakage will
show up as rectification and intermodulation harmonics (random low
level peaks, often wandering around slightly). Harmonics from the
power supply AC leaking through will be multiples of 60Hz, and then
the switching supply can add its own rectification harmonics.

These days, isolation design aspects are well understood, and I'd
expect any competant vendor to have done an acceptable job isolating
digital RF noise and power supply. I've not used a Zoom myself; they
have a good reputation. I'd hope they'd be practically immune to the
effect, but I'd not dismiss it with a sneer unless I verified it
myself. I've seen several devices that did not have good isolation.

The problem is not the sampled signal once it's digital. It's that
poorly isolated digital circuitry can contaminate the analog, and USB
is all about driving relatively big RF currents over distance. And
we've *never* seen hardware with flaws in the marketplace. Nope,
never happens.

Monty

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
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Aleksandar Kostadinov-2

Re: External USB Sound Cards

In reply to this post by Gale

On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 7:33 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 11:20:32 -0700 Al Dimond <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Friday, November 05, 2010 12:07:10 Allistair Bywater wrote:
...

>> > > This is (yet again) complete nonsense. You don't record with the
>> > > USB cable, you record with the ADCs of your device. That is, you
>> > > record with the same machinery as when you record with the ZOOM
>> > > separately. What travels over the USB cable is already digitized
>> > > audio data (digitized by ADC of the ZOOM, before it starts
>> > > travelling the cable). There is no noise to be introduced after
>> > > that stage. Which is one of the fundamental features of digital
>> > > audio, capisce?
>
> Are you (Al or Jan) suggesting there could never be USB transmission
> noise if you connected the Zoom to the computer? That was my only
> point, though I didn't clarify what I meant first time round. Unless you're
> suggesting there can't be added USB noise, what's written there (while
> true in itself) is IMO partial and misleading. Can you clarify?

AFAIK there cannot be USB transmission noise except perhaps when
computer fails to keep up with reading all data in time (which I think
should not be called noise anyways). But certainly the computer can
cause interference to the sound card's circuitry through the USB
cable. I see this on my laptop when powered with low quality AC (e.g.
cheap UPS in battery mode).

I always hear high pitch noice when recording through the internal
sound card and a small c-media usb card I have. I'm for now happy with
my behringer USB interface and when I need quality recording I use
that. It's cheaper than many consumer USB sound devices btw.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
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Jan Stary

Re: External USB Sound Cards

In reply to this post by Phyllis K Day

> > > Of course, recording with the USB
> > > cable may have a little more noise than recording direct into Zoom.
> >
> > This is (yet again) complete nonsense. You don't record with the USB
> > cable, you record with the ADCs of your device. That is, you record
> > with the same machinery as when you record with the ZOOM separately.
> > What travels over the USB cable is already digitized audio data
> > (digitized by ADC of the ZOOM, before it starts travelling the cable).
> > There is no noise to be introduced after that stage. Which is one of the
> > fundamental features of digital audio, capisce?

> I probably didn't make it very clear, but I was thinking of noise induced
> by the USB transmission. This can be significant, as anyone recording
> from USB turntables or cassette decks will know.

I think you made it quite clear actually:
you don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.

There is no noise "introduced by the USB transmission".
The noise you hear from your turntable or cassete deck
is the noise of the turntable or the cassete deck.
What travels over the USB cable is _digital_data_, ones and
zeros. Repeat after me: the mere transition of these ones
and zeros over a USB cable does not introduce any noise into them
(which is one of the main features of digital audio).

Perhaps the data you record from your USB keyboard is also
somehow mangled with noise as it travels the USB cable. Right?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your
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http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev
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Monty Montgomery

Re: External USB Sound Cards

I'll step in here and mention I design these circuits (though not for a living).

> What travels over the USB cable is _digital_data_, ones and
> zeros. Repeat after me: the mere transition of these ones
> and zeros over a USB cable does not introduce any noise into them
> (which is one of the main features of digital audio).

The issue is not the data once it is ones and zeros. The problem is
that the RF characteristics of an operating USB interface and its
power demands _can_ leak into the analog stages and contaminate the
analog signal *during the sampling process* as the two are necessarily
running concurrently. Audio running at 100-140dB deep is a hell of
alot of signal depth and crosstalk/coupling from the digital
componentry is hard to eliminate entirely. Not to mention the USB
cable by necessity is probably introducing a ground loop if everything
isn't battery powered.

Stop and listen to what others are actually saying, rather than what
you want them to be saying. Please don't give the rest of your fellow
skeptics a bad name.

Monty

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper
David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a
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