Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

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Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

James Crook
On 7/21/2017 4:52 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Peter Sampson <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> And there is a section on the New Features page:
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/New_features_in_this_release#midi
>>
> Looks very good.  The theme and logo images are exciting!
>
> What I would change:
>
>
>     - The link at top to release notes is incorrect.  I will get busy
>     filling the page in.  The other link at page bottom is correct.
Note that much of the issues section can be generated from Bugzilla.
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Process "Release
Announcements".  It can entail tidying up some release notes.


>     - MIDI playback should come right after Theme changes.  It's a short and
>     sweet description of a major change.  Put it just after the "exciting" eye
>     catching logo and theme images.  I want those who don't scroll far down the
>     page to notice it, before the more "boring" wordy pictures of menus.
+1
Done.
I also promoted Stem Plots.


>     - Your RM requests that something brief be said about the Esc key now
>     cancelling all drag actions.  And also very high on the page.
>        - Don't just do that to gratify me for one of my very few
>        user-visible projects among all my subtle hidden changes.  I think it is
>        important to start educating users new and old in this simple and uniform
>        user interface convention, and putting it on this page is a
> start.  I want
>        all new users to learn the habit of simply going to Esc whenever
> they have
>        a "gah, what's this?  Go away!" reaction to something like a
> snap line or a
>        vertical ruler zoom box.
>        - I hope later versions will make more progress on such conventions,
>        such as right click context menus and more consistent tab, arrow, and
>        scrollwheel actions and we will summarize all that prominently in
>        introductory material.
>        - (My changes to snap lines, letting them appear even before button
>        down, do not need mention on this page, but something should be said here
>        http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Selection#boundary-snap-guides
>        also mentioning that the first Esc key press escapes a snap guide without
>        cancelling the drag.)
Perhaps add the text you would like on the talk page, if you are
uncertain exactly what should appear on the actual page?


>     - The section on clip moving commands gets too deep into detail.  I
>     would move earlier: "The aim is that they have similar functionality to
>     using the mouse with the shift tool. So Clip left/right is roughly
>     equivalent to clicking in the focused track at the time given by selection
>     start, and dragging one pixel to the left/right."  And I would move all
>     the rest after the list of eight onto some other page.
+1
Peter can sort that out :-)


>     - I would rather just strike the sentence "This is particularly useful
>     when recording as previously in these cases Audacity used to silently, with
>     no warning, re-use the space at the buginning of your project, corrupting
>     your recording."  I don't like emphasizing how we used to screw up.
>     Just describe the new thing positively.
>     - Wordings and typos
>        - Under extended menus, do we want to spell out the abbreviation VI ?
>        - "Many place" should say "places"
>        - Remove extra spaces before period after "Audacity Wiki"

>     - I only ask, should extra space be given over to old logo and menu
>     images?  Or do they only distract from the important things?
+1.  Done.
(though I think the menu rearrangement IS major.  It had got very
higgledy piggledy and there was a lot to sort out)



>
>
> PRL


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Re: Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

Peter Sampson-2


On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:02 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/21/2017 4:52 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:


And there is a section on the New Features page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/New_features_in_this_release#midi

Looks very good.  The theme and logo images are exciting!

What I would change:


    - The link at top to release notes is incorrect.  I will get busy
    filling the page in.  The other link at page bottom is correct.
Note that much of the issues section can be generated from Bugzilla.
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Process "Release
Announcements".  It can entail tidying up some release notes.


    - MIDI playback should come right after Theme changes.  It's a short and
    sweet description of a major change.  Put it just after the "exciting" eye
    catching logo and theme images.  I want those who don't scroll far down the
    page to notice it, before the more "boring" wordy pictures of menus.
+1
Done.
I also promoted Stem Plots.


    - Your RM requests that something brief be said about the Esc key now
    cancelling all drag actions.  And also very high on the page.
       - Don't just do that to gratify me for one of my very few
       user-visible projects among all my subtle hidden changes.  I think it is
       important to start educating users new and old in this simple and uniform
       user interface convention, and putting it on this page is a
start.  I want
       all new users to learn the habit of simply going to Esc whenever
they have
       a "gah, what's this?  Go away!" reaction to something like a
snap line or a
       vertical ruler zoom box.
       - I hope later versions will make more progress on such conventions,
       such as right click context menus and more consistent tab, arrow, and
       scrollwheel actions and we will summarize all that prominently in
       introductory material.
       - (My changes to snap lines, letting them appear even before button
       down, do not need mention on this page, but something should be said here
       http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Selection#boundary-snap-guides
       also mentioning that the first Esc key press escapes a snap guide without
       cancelling the drag.)
Perhaps add the text you would like on the talk page, if you are
uncertain exactly what should appear on the actual page?


    - The section on clip moving commands gets too deep into detail.  I
    would move earlier: "The aim is that they have similar functionality to
    using the mouse with the shift tool. So Clip left/right is roughly
    equivalent to clicking in the focused track at the time given by selection
    start, and dragging one pixel to the left/right."  And I would move all
    the rest after the list of eight onto some other page.
+1
Peter can sort that out :-)


    - I would rather just strike the sentence "This is particularly useful
    when recording as previously in these cases Audacity used to silently, with
    no warning, re-use the space at the buginning of your project, corrupting
    your recording."  I don't like emphasizing how we used to screw up.
    Just describe the new thing positively.
    - Wordings and typos
       - Under extended menus, do we want to spell out the abbreviation VI ?
       - "Many place" should say "places"
       - Remove extra spaces before period after "Audacity Wiki"

    - I only ask, should extra space be given over to old logo and menu
    images?  Or do they only distract from the important things?
+1.  Done.
(though I think the menu rearrangement IS major.  It had got very
higgledy piggledy and there was a lot to sort out)

+1

I agree this is major - it will be *very* noticeable - so an explanation why is useful

Peter.
 






PRL


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Re: Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

Peter Sampson-2
In reply to this post by James Crook


On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:02 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/21/2017 4:52 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:


And there is a section on the New Features page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/New_features_in_this_release#midi

Looks very good.  The theme and logo images are exciting!

What I would change:


    - The link at top to release notes is incorrect.  I will get busy
    filling the page in.  The other link at page bottom is correct.
Note that much of the issues section can be generated from Bugzilla.
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Process "Release
Announcements".  It can entail tidying up some release notes.


    - MIDI playback should come right after Theme changes.  It's a short and
    sweet description of a major change.  Put it just after the "exciting" eye
    catching logo and theme images.  I want those who don't scroll far down the
    page to notice it, before the more "boring" wordy pictures of menus.
+1
Done.
I also promoted Stem Plots.


    - Your RM requests that something brief be said about the Esc key now
    cancelling all drag actions.  And also very high on the page.
       - Don't just do that to gratify me for one of my very few
       user-visible projects among all my subtle hidden changes.  I think it is
       important to start educating users new and old in this simple and uniform
       user interface convention, and putting it on this page is a
start.  I want
       all new users to learn the habit of simply going to Esc whenever
they have
       a "gah, what's this?  Go away!" reaction to something like a
snap line or a
       vertical ruler zoom box.
       - I hope later versions will make more progress on such conventions,
       such as right click context menus and more consistent tab, arrow, and
       scrollwheel actions and we will summarize all that prominently in
       introductory material.
       - (My changes to snap lines, letting them appear even before button
       down, do not need mention on this page, but something should be said here
       http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Selection#boundary-snap-guides
       also mentioning that the first Esc key press escapes a snap guide without
       cancelling the drag.)
Perhaps add the text you would like on the talk page, if you are
uncertain exactly what should appear on the actual page?


    - The section on clip moving commands gets too deep into detail.  I
    would move earlier: "The aim is that they have similar functionality to
    using the mouse with the shift tool. So Clip left/right is roughly
    equivalent to clicking in the focused track at the time given by selection
    start, and dragging one pixel to the left/right."  And I would move all
    the rest after the list of eight onto some other page.
+1
Peter can sort that out :-)


Sorted ...

I removed the "detail" - added menu strings and links - and added a note for the "hidden" commands.
Peter.

 


    - I would rather just strike the sentence "This is particularly useful
    when recording as previously in these cases Audacity used to silently, with
    no warning, re-use the space at the buginning of your project, corrupting
    your recording."  I don't like emphasizing how we used to screw up.
    Just describe the new thing positively.
    - Wordings and typos
       - Under extended menus, do we want to spell out the abbreviation VI ?
       - "Many place" should say "places"
       - Remove extra spaces before period after "Audacity Wiki"

    - I only ask, should extra space be given over to old logo and menu
    images?  Or do they only distract from the important things?
+1.  Done.
(though I think the menu rearrangement IS major.  It had got very
higgledy piggledy and there was a lot to sort out)






PRL


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Re: Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

David Bailes-3
On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:02 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/21/2017 4:52 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:


And there is a section on the New Features page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/New_features_in_this_release#midi

Looks very good.  The theme and logo images are exciting!

What I would change:


    - The link at top to release notes is incorrect.  I will get busy
    filling the page in.  The other link at page bottom is correct.
Note that much of the issues section can be generated from Bugzilla.
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Process "Release
Announcements".  It can entail tidying up some release notes.


    - MIDI playback should come right after Theme changes.  It's a short and
    sweet description of a major change.  Put it just after the "exciting" eye
    catching logo and theme images.  I want those who don't scroll far down the
    page to notice it, before the more "boring" wordy pictures of menus.
+1
Done.
I also promoted Stem Plots.


    - Your RM requests that something brief be said about the Esc key now
    cancelling all drag actions.  And also very high on the page.
       - Don't just do that to gratify me for one of my very few
       user-visible projects among all my subtle hidden changes.  I think it is
       important to start educating users new and old in this simple and uniform
       user interface convention, and putting it on this page is a
start.  I want
       all new users to learn the habit of simply going to Esc whenever
they have
       a "gah, what's this?  Go away!" reaction to something like a
snap line or a
       vertical ruler zoom box.
       - I hope later versions will make more progress on such conventions,
       such as right click context menus and more consistent tab, arrow, and
       scrollwheel actions and we will summarize all that prominently in
       introductory material.
       - (My changes to snap lines, letting them appear even before button
       down, do not need mention on this page, but something should be said here
       http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Selection#boundary-snap-guides
       also mentioning that the first Esc key press escapes a snap guide without
       cancelling the drag.)
Perhaps add the text you would like on the talk page, if you are
uncertain exactly what should appear on the actual page?


    - The section on clip moving commands gets too deep into detail.  I
    would move earlier: "The aim is that they have similar functionality to
    using the mouse with the shift tool. So Clip left/right is roughly
    equivalent to clicking in the focused track at the time given by selection
    start, and dragging one pixel to the left/right."  And I would move all
    the rest after the list of eight onto some other page.
+1
Peter can sort that out :-)


Sorted ...

I removed the "detail" - added menu strings and links - and added a note for the "hidden" commands.

The detail about moving clips is now not available anywhere - is that intentional?

One or two additional comments about the documentation of the new clip commands.
1. In the new features section, if any audio tracks are selected, the commands 1-6 use the clips in these tracks, otherwise they use the clips in all audio tracks. Also, the commands to select next/previous clip do have default shortcuts (alt+n, and alt+p)

2. The commands to move the cursor to the next/previous clip boundary do exactly that - not, for example:
"Moves the cursor position forwards to the left-hand edge of the next clip, then from the left-hand edge of the final clip to the end of the track."

3. Similarly for selection using clip boundaries.

David.



Peter.

 


    - I would rather just strike the sentence "This is particularly useful
    when recording as previously in these cases Audacity used to silently, with
    no warning, re-use the space at the buginning of your project, corrupting
    your recording."  I don't like emphasizing how we used to screw up.
    Just describe the new thing positively.
    - Wordings and typos
       - Under extended menus, do we want to spell out the abbreviation VI ?
       - "Many place" should say "places"
       - Remove extra spaces before period after "Audacity Wiki"

    - I only ask, should extra space be given over to old logo and menu
    images?  Or do they only distract from the important things?
+1.  Done.
(though I think the menu rearrangement IS major.  It had got very
higgledy piggledy and there was a lot to sort out)






PRL


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Re: Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

Peter Sampson-2


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 1:14 PM, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:02 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/21/2017 4:52 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:


And there is a section on the New Features page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/New_features_in_this_release#midi

Looks very good.  The theme and logo images are exciting!

What I would change:


    - The link at top to release notes is incorrect.  I will get busy
    filling the page in.  The other link at page bottom is correct.
Note that much of the issues section can be generated from Bugzilla.
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Process "Release
Announcements".  It can entail tidying up some release notes.


    - MIDI playback should come right after Theme changes.  It's a short and
    sweet description of a major change.  Put it just after the "exciting" eye
    catching logo and theme images.  I want those who don't scroll far down the
    page to notice it, before the more "boring" wordy pictures of menus.
+1
Done.
I also promoted Stem Plots.


    - Your RM requests that something brief be said about the Esc key now
    cancelling all drag actions.  And also very high on the page.
       - Don't just do that to gratify me for one of my very few
       user-visible projects among all my subtle hidden changes.  I think it is
       important to start educating users new and old in this simple and uniform
       user interface convention, and putting it on this page is a
start.  I want
       all new users to learn the habit of simply going to Esc whenever
they have
       a "gah, what's this?  Go away!" reaction to something like a
snap line or a
       vertical ruler zoom box.
       - I hope later versions will make more progress on such conventions,
       such as right click context menus and more consistent tab, arrow, and
       scrollwheel actions and we will summarize all that prominently in
       introductory material.
       - (My changes to snap lines, letting them appear even before button
       down, do not need mention on this page, but something should be said here
       http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Selection#boundary-snap-guides
       also mentioning that the first Esc key press escapes a snap guide without
       cancelling the drag.)
Perhaps add the text you would like on the talk page, if you are
uncertain exactly what should appear on the actual page?


    - The section on clip moving commands gets too deep into detail.  I
    would move earlier: "The aim is that they have similar functionality to
    using the mouse with the shift tool. So Clip left/right is roughly
    equivalent to clicking in the focused track at the time given by selection
    start, and dragging one pixel to the left/right."  And I would move all
    the rest after the list of eight onto some other page.
+1
Peter can sort that out :-)


Sorted ...

I removed the "detail" - added menu strings and links - and added a note for the "hidden" commands.

The detail about moving clips is now not available anywhere - is that intentional?

Information about moving clips (time shifting and to different tracks) is to be found on this page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Tracks_and_Clips

Peter.

 

One or two additional comments about the documentation of the new clip commands.
1. In the new features section, if any audio tracks are selected, the commands 1-6 use the clips in these tracks, otherwise they use the clips in all audio tracks. Also, the commands to select next/previous clip do have default shortcuts (alt+n, and alt+p)

2. The commands to move the cursor to the next/previous clip boundary do exactly that - not, for example:
"Moves the cursor position forwards to the left-hand edge of the next clip, then from the left-hand edge of the final clip to the end of the track."

3. Similarly for selection using clip boundaries.

David.



Peter.

 


    - I would rather just strike the sentence "This is particularly useful
    when recording as previously in these cases Audacity used to silently, with
    no warning, re-use the space at the buginning of your project, corrupting
    your recording."  I don't like emphasizing how we used to screw up.
    Just describe the new thing positively.
    - Wordings and typos
       - Under extended menus, do we want to spell out the abbreviation VI ?
       - "Many place" should say "places"
       - Remove extra spaces before period after "Audacity Wiki"

    - I only ask, should extra space be given over to old logo and menu
    images?  Or do they only distract from the important things?
+1.  Done.
(though I think the menu rearrangement IS major.  It had got very
higgledy piggledy and there was a lot to sort out)






PRL


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Re: Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

Paul Licameli


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 1:14 PM, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:02 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/21/2017 4:52 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:


And there is a section on the New Features page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/New_features_in_this_release#midi

Looks very good.  The theme and logo images are exciting!

What I would change:


    - The link at top to release notes is incorrect.  I will get busy
    filling the page in.  The other link at page bottom is correct.
Note that much of the issues section can be generated from Bugzilla.
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Process "Release
Announcements".  It can entail tidying up some release notes.


    - MIDI playback should come right after Theme changes.  It's a short and
    sweet description of a major change.  Put it just after the "exciting" eye
    catching logo and theme images.  I want those who don't scroll far down the
    page to notice it, before the more "boring" wordy pictures of menus.
+1
Done.
I also promoted Stem Plots.


    - Your RM requests that something brief be said about the Esc key now
    cancelling all drag actions.  And also very high on the page.
       - Don't just do that to gratify me for one of my very few
       user-visible projects among all my subtle hidden changes.  I think it is
       important to start educating users new and old in this simple and uniform
       user interface convention, and putting it on this page is a
start.  I want
       all new users to learn the habit of simply going to Esc whenever
they have
       a "gah, what's this?  Go away!" reaction to something like a
snap line or a
       vertical ruler zoom box.
       - I hope later versions will make more progress on such conventions,
       such as right click context menus and more consistent tab, arrow, and
       scrollwheel actions and we will summarize all that prominently in
       introductory material.
       - (My changes to snap lines, letting them appear even before button
       down, do not need mention on this page, but something should be said here
       http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Selection#boundary-snap-guides
       also mentioning that the first Esc key press escapes a snap guide without
       cancelling the drag.)
Perhaps add the text you would like on the talk page, if you are
uncertain exactly what should appear on the actual page?


    - The section on clip moving commands gets too deep into detail.  I
    would move earlier: "The aim is that they have similar functionality to
    using the mouse with the shift tool. So Clip left/right is roughly
    equivalent to clicking in the focused track at the time given by selection
    start, and dragging one pixel to the left/right."  And I would move all
    the rest after the list of eight onto some other page.
+1
Peter can sort that out :-)


Sorted ...

I removed the "detail" - added menu strings and links - and added a note for the "hidden" commands.

The detail about moving clips is now not available anywhere - is that intentional?

Information about moving clips (time shifting and to different tracks) is to be found on this page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Tracks_and_Clips

Peter.

David, are you satisfied that there are easy links from "new features" to all the relevant detail?

I recall a list of eight items but now there are six.

PRL

 

 

One or two additional comments about the documentation of the new clip commands.
1. In the new features section, if any audio tracks are selected, the commands 1-6 use the clips in these tracks, otherwise they use the clips in all audio tracks. Also, the commands to select next/previous clip do have default shortcuts (alt+n, and alt+p)

2. The commands to move the cursor to the next/previous clip boundary do exactly that - not, for example:
"Moves the cursor position forwards to the left-hand edge of the next clip, then from the left-hand edge of the final clip to the end of the track."

3. Similarly for selection using clip boundaries.

David.



Peter.

 


    - I would rather just strike the sentence "This is particularly useful
    when recording as previously in these cases Audacity used to silently, with
    no warning, re-use the space at the buginning of your project, corrupting
    your recording."  I don't like emphasizing how we used to screw up.
    Just describe the new thing positively.
    - Wordings and typos
       - Under extended menus, do we want to spell out the abbreviation VI ?
       - "Many place" should say "places"
       - Remove extra spaces before period after "Audacity Wiki"

    - I only ask, should extra space be given over to old logo and menu
    images?  Or do they only distract from the important things?
+1.  Done.
(though I think the menu rearrangement IS major.  It had got very
higgledy piggledy and there was a lot to sort out)






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Re: Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

Peter Sampson-2


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 1:14 PM, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:02 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/21/2017 4:52 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:


And there is a section on the New Features page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/New_features_in_this_release#midi

Looks very good.  The theme and logo images are exciting!

What I would change:


    - The link at top to release notes is incorrect.  I will get busy
    filling the page in.  The other link at page bottom is correct.
Note that much of the issues section can be generated from Bugzilla.
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Process "Release
Announcements".  It can entail tidying up some release notes.


    - MIDI playback should come right after Theme changes.  It's a short and
    sweet description of a major change.  Put it just after the "exciting" eye
    catching logo and theme images.  I want those who don't scroll far down the
    page to notice it, before the more "boring" wordy pictures of menus.
+1
Done.
I also promoted Stem Plots.


    - Your RM requests that something brief be said about the Esc key now
    cancelling all drag actions.  And also very high on the page.
       - Don't just do that to gratify me for one of my very few
       user-visible projects among all my subtle hidden changes.  I think it is
       important to start educating users new and old in this simple and uniform
       user interface convention, and putting it on this page is a
start.  I want
       all new users to learn the habit of simply going to Esc whenever
they have
       a "gah, what's this?  Go away!" reaction to something like a
snap line or a
       vertical ruler zoom box.
       - I hope later versions will make more progress on such conventions,
       such as right click context menus and more consistent tab, arrow, and
       scrollwheel actions and we will summarize all that prominently in
       introductory material.
       - (My changes to snap lines, letting them appear even before button
       down, do not need mention on this page, but something should be said here
       http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Selection#boundary-snap-guides
       also mentioning that the first Esc key press escapes a snap guide without
       cancelling the drag.)
Perhaps add the text you would like on the talk page, if you are
uncertain exactly what should appear on the actual page?


    - The section on clip moving commands gets too deep into detail.  I
    would move earlier: "The aim is that they have similar functionality to
    using the mouse with the shift tool. So Clip left/right is roughly
    equivalent to clicking in the focused track at the time given by selection
    start, and dragging one pixel to the left/right."  And I would move all
    the rest after the list of eight onto some other page.
+1
Peter can sort that out :-)


Sorted ...

I removed the "detail" - added menu strings and links - and added a note for the "hidden" commands.

The detail about moving clips is now not available anywhere - is that intentional?

Information about moving clips (time shifting and to different tracks) is to be found on this page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Tracks_and_Clips

Peter.

David, are you satisfied that there are easy links from "new features" to all the relevant detail?

I recall a list of eight items but now there are six.


Well remembered.

The other two were listed as "not on any menu" - but in fact thay are now on the extended  menus
referenced in the note in that section.

Peter.

PRL

 

 

One or two additional comments about the documentation of the new clip commands.
1. In the new features section, if any audio tracks are selected, the commands 1-6 use the clips in these tracks, otherwise they use the clips in all audio tracks. Also, the commands to select next/previous clip do have default shortcuts (alt+n, and alt+p)

2. The commands to move the cursor to the next/previous clip boundary do exactly that - not, for example:
"Moves the cursor position forwards to the left-hand edge of the next clip, then from the left-hand edge of the final clip to the end of the track."

3. Similarly for selection using clip boundaries.

David.



Peter.

 


    - I would rather just strike the sentence "This is particularly useful
    when recording as previously in these cases Audacity used to silently, with
    no warning, re-use the space at the buginning of your project, corrupting
    your recording."  I don't like emphasizing how we used to screw up.
    Just describe the new thing positively.
    - Wordings and typos
       - Under extended menus, do we want to spell out the abbreviation VI ?
       - "Many place" should say "places"
       - Remove extra spaces before period after "Audacity Wiki"

    - I only ask, should extra space be given over to old logo and menu
    images?  Or do they only distract from the important things?
+1.  Done.
(though I think the menu rearrangement IS major.  It had got very
higgledy piggledy and there was a lot to sort out)






PRL


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Re: Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

David Bailes-3
On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 1:14 PM, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:02 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/21/2017 4:52 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:


And there is a section on the New Features page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/New_features_in_this_release#midi

Looks very good.  The theme and logo images are exciting!

What I would change:


    - The link at top to release notes is incorrect.  I will get busy
    filling the page in.  The other link at page bottom is correct.
Note that much of the issues section can be generated from Bugzilla.
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Process "Release
Announcements".  It can entail tidying up some release notes.


    - MIDI playback should come right after Theme changes.  It's a short and
    sweet description of a major change.  Put it just after the "exciting" eye
    catching logo and theme images.  I want those who don't scroll far down the
    page to notice it, before the more "boring" wordy pictures of menus.
+1
Done.
I also promoted Stem Plots.


    - Your RM requests that something brief be said about the Esc key now
    cancelling all drag actions.  And also very high on the page.
       - Don't just do that to gratify me for one of my very few
       user-visible projects among all my subtle hidden changes.  I think it is
       important to start educating users new and old in this simple and uniform
       user interface convention, and putting it on this page is a
start.  I want
       all new users to learn the habit of simply going to Esc whenever
they have
       a "gah, what's this?  Go away!" reaction to something like a
snap line or a
       vertical ruler zoom box.
       - I hope later versions will make more progress on such conventions,
       such as right click context menus and more consistent tab, arrow, and
       scrollwheel actions and we will summarize all that prominently in
       introductory material.
       - (My changes to snap lines, letting them appear even before button
       down, do not need mention on this page, but something should be said here
       http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Selection#boundary-snap-guides
       also mentioning that the first Esc key press escapes a snap guide without
       cancelling the drag.)
Perhaps add the text you would like on the talk page, if you are
uncertain exactly what should appear on the actual page?


    - The section on clip moving commands gets too deep into detail.  I
    would move earlier: "The aim is that they have similar functionality to
    using the mouse with the shift tool. So Clip left/right is roughly
    equivalent to clicking in the focused track at the time given by selection
    start, and dragging one pixel to the left/right."  And I would move all
    the rest after the list of eight onto some other page.
+1
Peter can sort that out :-)


Sorted ...

I removed the "detail" - added menu strings and links - and added a note for the "hidden" commands.

The detail about moving clips is now not available anywhere - is that intentional?

Information about moving clips (time shifting and to different tracks) is to be found on this page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Tracks_and_Clips

Peter.

David, are you satisfied that there are easy links from "new features" to all the relevant detail?

I recall a list of eight items but now there are six.


Well remembered.

The other two were listed as "not on any menu" - but in fact thay are now on the extended  menus
referenced in the note in that section.

The note starts:
There are also new command for moving the cursor, including to clips 

These commandS are primarily for moving clips rather than the cursor, although the cursor does get moved. I know they're in a Cursor sub menu, but I'm not sure why, and doubt that users will look for them there.

David.

Peter.

PRL

 

 

One or two additional comments about the documentation of the new clip commands.
1. In the new features section, if any audio tracks are selected, the commands 1-6 use the clips in these tracks, otherwise they use the clips in all audio tracks. Also, the commands to select next/previous clip do have default shortcuts (alt+n, and alt+p)

2. The commands to move the cursor to the next/previous clip boundary do exactly that - not, for example:
"Moves the cursor position forwards to the left-hand edge of the next clip, then from the left-hand edge of the final clip to the end of the track."

3. Similarly for selection using clip boundaries.

David.



Peter.

 


    - I would rather just strike the sentence "This is particularly useful
    when recording as previously in these cases Audacity used to silently, with
    no warning, re-use the space at the buginning of your project, corrupting
    your recording."  I don't like emphasizing how we used to screw up.
    Just describe the new thing positively.
    - Wordings and typos
       - Under extended menus, do we want to spell out the abbreviation VI ?
       - "Many place" should say "places"
       - Remove extra spaces before period after "Audacity Wiki"

    - I only ask, should extra space be given over to old logo and menu
    images?  Or do they only distract from the important things?
+1.  Done.
(though I think the menu rearrangement IS major.  It had got very
higgledy piggledy and there was a lot to sort out)






PRL


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Re: Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

Peter Sampson-2


On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 11:50 AM, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 1:14 PM, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 22, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 11:02 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/21/2017 4:52 PM, Paul Licameli wrote:

On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:


And there is a section on the New Features page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/New_features_in_this_release#midi

Looks very good.  The theme and logo images are exciting!

What I would change:


    - The link at top to release notes is incorrect.  I will get busy
    filling the page in.  The other link at page bottom is correct.
Note that much of the issues section can be generated from Bugzilla.
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Process "Release
Announcements".  It can entail tidying up some release notes.


    - MIDI playback should come right after Theme changes.  It's a short and
    sweet description of a major change.  Put it just after the "exciting" eye
    catching logo and theme images.  I want those who don't scroll far down the
    page to notice it, before the more "boring" wordy pictures of menus.
+1
Done.
I also promoted Stem Plots.


    - Your RM requests that something brief be said about the Esc key now
    cancelling all drag actions.  And also very high on the page.
       - Don't just do that to gratify me for one of my very few
       user-visible projects among all my subtle hidden changes.  I think it is
       important to start educating users new and old in this simple and uniform
       user interface convention, and putting it on this page is a
start.  I want
       all new users to learn the habit of simply going to Esc whenever
they have
       a "gah, what's this?  Go away!" reaction to something like a
snap line or a
       vertical ruler zoom box.
       - I hope later versions will make more progress on such conventions,
       such as right click context menus and more consistent tab, arrow, and
       scrollwheel actions and we will summarize all that prominently in
       introductory material.
       - (My changes to snap lines, letting them appear even before button
       down, do not need mention on this page, but something should be said here
       http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Selection#boundary-snap-guides
       also mentioning that the first Esc key press escapes a snap guide without
       cancelling the drag.)
Perhaps add the text you would like on the talk page, if you are
uncertain exactly what should appear on the actual page?


    - The section on clip moving commands gets too deep into detail.  I
    would move earlier: "The aim is that they have similar functionality to
    using the mouse with the shift tool. So Clip left/right is roughly
    equivalent to clicking in the focused track at the time given by selection
    start, and dragging one pixel to the left/right."  And I would move all
    the rest after the list of eight onto some other page.
+1
Peter can sort that out :-)


Sorted ...

I removed the "detail" - added menu strings and links - and added a note for the "hidden" commands.

The detail about moving clips is now not available anywhere - is that intentional?

Information about moving clips (time shifting and to different tracks) is to be found on this page:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audacity_Tracks_and_Clips

Peter.

David, are you satisfied that there are easy links from "new features" to all the relevant detail?

I recall a list of eight items but now there are six.


Well remembered.

The other two were listed as "not on any menu" - but in fact thay are now on the extended  menus
referenced in the note in that section.

The note starts:
There are also new command for moving the cursor, including to clips 

These commandS are primarily for moving clips rather than the cursor, although the cursor does get moved. I know they're in a Cursor sub menu, but I'm not sure why, and doubt that users will look for them there.

OK David, so in the light of that I updated the note:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/New_features_in_this_release#clips

As for their discoverability (or otherwise) in that menu - that is an entrely different issue.

I worry about the general case od the discoverability of the Extended menus in thei entirety).

Peter.

 

David.

Peter.

PRL

 

 

One or two additional comments about the documentation of the new clip commands.
1. In the new features section, if any audio tracks are selected, the commands 1-6 use the clips in these tracks, otherwise they use the clips in all audio tracks. Also, the commands to select next/previous clip do have default shortcuts (alt+n, and alt+p)

2. The commands to move the cursor to the next/previous clip boundary do exactly that - not, for example:
"Moves the cursor position forwards to the left-hand edge of the next clip, then from the left-hand edge of the final clip to the end of the track."

3. Similarly for selection using clip boundaries.

David.



Peter.

 


    - I would rather just strike the sentence "This is particularly useful
    when recording as previously in these cases Audacity used to silently, with
    no warning, re-use the space at the buginning of your project, corrupting
    your recording."  I don't like emphasizing how we used to screw up.
    Just describe the new thing positively.
    - Wordings and typos
       - Under extended menus, do we want to spell out the abbreviation VI ?
       - "Many place" should say "places"
       - Remove extra spaces before period after "Audacity Wiki"

    - I only ask, should extra space be given over to old logo and menu
    images?  Or do they only distract from the important things?
+1.  Done.
(though I think the menu rearrangement IS major.  It had got very
higgledy piggledy and there was a lot to sort out)






PRL


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Re: Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

James Crook
In reply to this post by David Bailes-3
On 7/24/2017 11:50 AM, David Bailes wrote:
> These commandS are primarily for moving clips rather than the cursor,
> although the cursor does get moved. I know they're in a Cursor sub
> menu, but I'm not sure why, and doubt that users will look for them
> there.
> David.
So I'd say we should create a new submenu in Ext-Command 'Clips' at the
next String thaw, and move 'Clip Left' and 'Clip Right' there.

--James.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Request a few changes to new Features page

David Bailes-3
On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 1:04 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 7/24/2017 11:50 AM, David Bailes wrote:
These commandS are primarily for moving clips rather than the cursor, although the cursor does get moved. I know they're in a Cursor sub menu, but I'm not sure why, and doubt that users will look for them there.
David.
So I'd say we should create a new submenu in Ext-Command 'Clips' at the next String thaw, and move 'Clip Left' and 'Clip Right' there.

+1.

(And I think move to next/previous label may be easier to find if they weren't in the transcription sub menu.)

David.
 


--James.



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