Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
55 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Peter Sampson-2

Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with my

Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an

Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.


This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we

currently have in the Manual):

http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi


That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say) interpretation.

I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which

normal humans can understand.

Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with Timidity.

Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the Wiki

and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.


On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra stuff, no tweaking

just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out comes the sound ...


Thoughts please.

 

Peter.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Peter Sampson-2
The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.

On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)

Peter.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with my

Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an

Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.


This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we

currently have in the Manual):

http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi


That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say) interpretation.

I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which

normal humans can understand.

Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with Timidity.

Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the Wiki

and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.


On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra stuff, no tweaking

just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out comes the sound ...


Thoughts please.

 

Peter.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Stevethefiddle
I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?

Steve

On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
> on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
> sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>
> On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>
> Peter.
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with my
>>
>> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>
>> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>
>>
>> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>
>> currently have in the Manual):
>>
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>
>>
>> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>> interpretation.
>>
>> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>
>> normal humans can understand.
>>
>> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>> Timidity.
>>
>> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the Wiki
>>
>> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>
>>
>> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra stuff,
>> no tweaking
>>
>> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out comes the
>> sound ...
>>
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Missing labels in High Contrast Theme

Cliff Scott
Don't know why it didn't stick out to me before this, but there is IMO a fix needed in the High Contrast Theme to make the titles for Project Rate (Hz), Snap-To and Audio Position visible. The Start and Length Selection title is visible because of the white background, but the other 3 next to it do not have a light background to make the black lettering visible. They are fine in the other themes.

Cliff
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Missing labels in High Contrast Theme

Cliff Scott
I hate it when this happens, but chalk this one to Moonphase, though it may be reproducible if I find the exact way to do it. Those labels were written in black until I went to the other themes to check it what colors were used there. When I came back to High Contrast, of course after I sent the email, they were now visible with the green text color. Sorry for the alarm, but for now I suppose ignore it until I can get it to happen again. I suspect it was a case of some sequence that didn't refresh the display for those labels.

Cliff

> On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:09 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Don't know why it didn't stick out to me before this, but there is IMO a fix needed in the High Contrast Theme to make the titles for Project Rate (Hz), Snap-To and Audio Position visible. The Start and Length Selection title is visible because of the white background, but the other 3 next to it do not have a light background to make the black lettering visible. They are fine in the other themes.
>
> Cliff


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Missing labels in High Contrast Theme

Cliff Scott
Ok, the labels were there then I opened a project and they went away. For some reason those labels are covered up or changed to black during the open process. Once the file is open then go to another theme and back to High Contrast and the labels are there. Sheesh, I thought I was losing it there for a minute.

Cliff

> On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I hate it when this happens, but chalk this one to Moonphase, though it may be reproducible if I find the exact way to do it. Those labels were written in black until I went to the other themes to check it what colors were used there. When I came back to High Contrast, of course after I sent the email, they were now visible with the green text color. Sorry for the alarm, but for now I suppose ignore it until I can get it to happen again. I suspect it was a case of some sequence that didn't refresh the display for those labels.
>
> Cliff
>
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:09 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Don't know why it didn't stick out to me before this, but there is IMO a fix needed in the High Contrast Theme to make the titles for Project Rate (Hz), Snap-To and Audio Position visible. The Start and Length Selection title is visible because of the white background, but the other 3 next to it do not have a light background to make the black lettering visible. They are fine in the other themes.
>>
>> Cliff
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Missing labels in High Contrast Theme

Peter Sampson-2
I confirm this happens on Mac with Cliff's build of 22Jul17

It affects Dark too - but not as badly.  What appears to be happening is that the
text labels for Project Rate, Snap To and Audio Position are drawn in black
(observable, just, in Dark - but not in High Contrast) but only after you Open
a project.

This affects not just the newly opened project but any other open Audacity project.

Testing on W10 audacity-win-rf1aa916-2.2.0-alpha-23-jul-17
shows that this does not appear to affect Windows.

Peter

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:23 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ok, the labels were there then I opened a project and they went away. For some reason those labels are covered up or changed to black during the open process. Once the file is open then go to another theme and back to High Contrast and the labels are there. Sheesh, I thought I was losing it there for a minute.

Cliff

> On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I hate it when this happens, but chalk this one to Moonphase, though it may be reproducible if I find the exact way to do it. Those labels were written in black until I went to the other themes to check it what colors were used there. When I came back to High Contrast, of course after I sent the email, they were now visible with the green text color. Sorry for the alarm, but for now I suppose ignore it until I can get it to happen again. I suspect it was a case of some sequence that didn't refresh the display for those labels.
>
> Cliff
>
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:09 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Don't know why it didn't stick out to me before this, but there is IMO a fix needed in the High Contrast Theme to make the titles for Project Rate (Hz), Snap-To and Audio Position visible. The Start and Length Selection title is visible because of the white background, but the other 3 next to it do not have a light background to make the black lettering visible. They are fine in the other themes.
>>
>> Cliff
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Missing labels in High Contrast Theme

Peter Sampson-2
The simple workaround is to go to Interface Preferences and select
(the already inplay) High Contrast theme.

And note that this bug does not affect the time displays in the Selection Toolbar.

Should we be logging this on Bugzilla - or is it just a simple fix?

Peter.

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I confirm this happens on Mac with Cliff's build of 22Jul17

It affects Dark too - but not as badly.  What appears to be happening is that the
text labels for Project Rate, Snap To and Audio Position are drawn in black
(observable, just, in Dark - but not in High Contrast) but only after you Open
a project.

This affects not just the newly opened project but any other open Audacity project.

Testing on W10 audacity-win-rf1aa916-2.2.0-alpha-23-jul-17
shows that this does not appear to affect Windows.

Peter

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:23 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ok, the labels were there then I opened a project and they went away. For some reason those labels are covered up or changed to black during the open process. Once the file is open then go to another theme and back to High Contrast and the labels are there. Sheesh, I thought I was losing it there for a minute.

Cliff

> On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I hate it when this happens, but chalk this one to Moonphase, though it may be reproducible if I find the exact way to do it. Those labels were written in black until I went to the other themes to check it what colors were used there. When I came back to High Contrast, of course after I sent the email, they were now visible with the green text color. Sorry for the alarm, but for now I suppose ignore it until I can get it to happen again. I suspect it was a case of some sequence that didn't refresh the display for those labels.
>
> Cliff
>
>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:09 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Don't know why it didn't stick out to me before this, but there is IMO a fix needed in the High Contrast Theme to make the titles for Project Rate (Hz), Snap-To and Audio Position visible. The Start and Length Selection title is visible because of the white background, but the other 3 next to it do not have a light background to make the black lettering visible. They are fine in the other themes.
>>
>> Cliff
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Missing labels in High Contrast Theme

James Crook
Log it in Bugzilla.

It's not clear why it is happening.  I had a look at the code last
night, and it appears to be setting the colour of that text, rather than
leaving it the default black, immediately after creating the text.

--James.


On 7/24/2017 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson wrote:

> The simple workaround is to go to Interface Preferences and select
> (the already inplay) High Contrast theme.
>
> And note that this bug does not affect the time displays in the Selection
> Toolbar.
>
> Should we be logging this on Bugzilla - or is it just a simple fix?
>
> Peter.
>
> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Peter Sampson <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I confirm this happens on Mac with Cliff's build of 22Jul17
>>
>> It affects Dark too - but not as badly.  What appears to be happening is
>> that the
>> text labels for Project Rate, Snap To and Audio Position are drawn in
>> black
>> (observable, just, in Dark - but not in High Contrast) but only after you
>> Open
>> a project.
>>
>> This affects not just the newly opened project but any other open Audacity
>> project.
>>
>> Testing on W10 audacity-win-rf1aa916-2.2.0-alpha-23-jul-17
>> shows that this does not appear to affect Windows.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:23 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, the labels were there then I opened a project and they went away. For
>>> some reason those labels are covered up or changed to black during the open
>>> process. Once the file is open then go to another theme and back to High
>>> Contrast and the labels are there. Sheesh, I thought I was losing it there
>>> for a minute.
>>>
>>> Cliff
>>>
>>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I hate it when this happens, but chalk this one to Moonphase, though it
>>> may be reproducible if I find the exact way to do it. Those labels were
>>> written in black until I went to the other themes to check it what colors
>>> were used there. When I came back to High Contrast, of course after I sent
>>> the email, they were now visible with the green text color. Sorry for the
>>> alarm, but for now I suppose ignore it until I can get it to happen again.
>>> I suspect it was a case of some sequence that didn't refresh the display
>>> for those labels.
>>>> Cliff
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:09 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't know why it didn't stick out to me before this, but there is IMO
>>> a fix needed in the High Contrast Theme to make the titles for Project Rate
>>> (Hz), Snap-To and Audio Position visible. The Start and Length Selection
>>> title is visible because of the white background, but the other 3 next to
>>> it do not have a light background to make the black lettering visible. They
>>> are fine in the other themes.
>>>>> Cliff

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Missing labels in High Contrast Theme

Peter Sampson-2


On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 11:24 AM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
Log it in Bugzilla.

Good catch Cliff ...

Peter.
 

It's not clear why it is happening.  I had a look at the code last night, and it appears to be setting the colour of that text, rather than leaving it the default black, immediately after creating the text.

--James.



On 7/24/2017 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson wrote:
The simple workaround is to go to Interface Preferences and select
(the already inplay) High Contrast theme.

And note that this bug does not affect the time displays in the Selection
Toolbar.

Should we be logging this on Bugzilla - or is it just a simple fix?

Peter.

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Peter Sampson <
[hidden email]> wrote:

I confirm this happens on Mac with Cliff's build of 22Jul17

It affects Dark too - but not as badly.  What appears to be happening is
that the
text labels for Project Rate, Snap To and Audio Position are drawn in
black
(observable, just, in Dark - but not in High Contrast) but only after you
Open
a project.

This affects not just the newly opened project but any other open Audacity
project.

Testing on W10 audacity-win-rf1aa916-2.2.0-alpha-23-jul-17
shows that this does not appear to affect Windows.

Peter

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 10:23 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ok, the labels were there then I opened a project and they went away. For
some reason those labels are covered up or changed to black during the open
process. Once the file is open then go to another theme and back to High
Contrast and the labels are there. Sheesh, I thought I was losing it there
for a minute.

Cliff

On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hate it when this happens, but chalk this one to Moonphase, though it
may be reproducible if I find the exact way to do it. Those labels were
written in black until I went to the other themes to check it what colors
were used there. When I came back to High Contrast, of course after I sent
the email, they were now visible with the green text color. Sorry for the
alarm, but for now I suppose ignore it until I can get it to happen again.
I suspect it was a case of some sequence that didn't refresh the display
for those labels.
Cliff

On Jul 23, 2017, at 4:09 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

Don't know why it didn't stick out to me before this, but there is IMO
a fix needed in the High Contrast Theme to make the titles for Project Rate
(Hz), Snap-To and Audio Position visible. The Start and Length Selection
title is visible because of the white background, but the other 3 next to
it do not have a light background to make the black lettering visible. They
are fine in the other themes.
Cliff

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Peter Sampson-2
In reply to this post by Stevethefiddle
I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft instructions
for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac;
alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac

I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware synth after I reboooted
my Mac  - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier helped me climb
out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP" embarrasssingly).
So I added a note about that on the page.

It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the instructions on this page.

(more comments inline)

Cheers,
Peter.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?

My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is MIDI enabled
or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop.

If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no onboard soundcard,
with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard.

Peter.

 

Steve

On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
> on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
> sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>
> On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>
> Peter.
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with my
>>
>> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>
>> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>
>>
>> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>
>> currently have in the Manual):
>>
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>
>>
>> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>> interpretation.
>>
>> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>
>> normal humans can understand.
>>
>> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>> Timidity.
>>
>> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the Wiki
>>
>> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>
>>
>> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra stuff,
>> no tweaking
>>
>> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out comes the
>> sound ...
>>
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Bill Wharrie
Peter:
I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth not having been updated since 2009.

I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window that looks somewhat different from yours.

Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” working computer until I know more about it.

— Bill

On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft instructions
for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac;
alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac

I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware synth after I reboooted
my Mac  - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier helped me climb
out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP" embarrasssingly).
So I added a note about that on the page.

It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the instructions on this page.

(more comments inline)

Cheers,
Peter.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?

My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is MIDI enabled
or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop.

If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no onboard soundcard,
with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard.

Peter.

 

Steve

On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
> on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
> sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>
> On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>
> Peter.
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with my
>>
>> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>
>> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>
>>
>> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>
>> currently have in the Manual):
>>
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>
>>
>> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>> interpretation.
>>
>> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>
>> normal humans can understand.
>>
>> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>> Timidity.
>>
>> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the Wiki
>>
>> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>
>>
>> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra stuff,
>> no tweaking
>>
>> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out comes the
>> sound ...
>>
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Peter Sampson-2
I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page:

Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us recommending a package
like this whose website shows that it has not been maintained/updated since
5th September 2009.

As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email in this thread, he
shares my misgivings in regard to this.


The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us needing to recommend
unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users - and indeed software
that is no longer maintained and tended.
I do have grave misgivings about this.

One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play MIDI files without the need or
any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday.  Double-clicking on a MIDI file
jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne played with no other
intervention - so my thinking is:  if Garageband can do that, why can't Audacity?

Thoughts please.

Peter.




On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie <[hidden email]> wrote:
Peter:
I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth not having been updated since 2009.

I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window that looks somewhat different from yours.

Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” working computer until I know more about it.

— Bill

On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft instructions
for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac;
alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac

I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware synth after I reboooted
my Mac  - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier helped me climb
out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP" embarrasssingly).
So I added a note about that on the page.

It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the instructions on this page.

(more comments inline)

Cheers,
Peter.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?

My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is MIDI enabled
or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop.

If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no onboard soundcard,
with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard.

Peter.

 

Steve

On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
> on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
> sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>
> On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>
> Peter.
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with my
>>
>> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>
>> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>
>>
>> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>
>> currently have in the Manual):
>>
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>
>>
>> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>> interpretation.
>>
>> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>
>> normal humans can understand.
>>
>> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>> Timidity.
>>
>> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the Wiki
>>
>> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>
>>
>> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra stuff,
>> no tweaking
>>
>> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out comes the
>> sound ...
>>
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Paul Licameli


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page:

Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us recommending a package
like this whose website shows that it has not been maintained/updated since
5th September 2009.

As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email in this thread, he
shares my misgivings in regard to this.

I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us.  Did he not say he still recommends SimpleSynth to students?  So why not let our manual do the same?

So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant (or nicely stable?) since 2009.  Can Roger recommend another more up to date, recently maintained, and reputable third party software synth for mention in our manual?

How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other third-party software such as LAME?
 


The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us needing to recommend
unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users - and indeed software
that is no longer maintained and tended.
I do have grave misgivings about this.

One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play MIDI files without the need or
any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday.  Double-clicking on a MIDI file
jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne played with no other
intervention - so my thinking is:  if Garageband can do that, why can't Audacity?

Thoughts please.

My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal MIDI renderer.

And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight program for MIDI play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this release.

Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding more third-party libraries to our build, wouldn't it?  Not gonna happen in 2.2.0.

PRL

 


Peter.




On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie <[hidden email]> wrote:
Peter:
I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth not having been updated since 2009.

I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window that looks somewhat different from yours.

Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” working computer until I know more about it.

— Bill

On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft instructions
for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac;
alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac

I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware synth after I reboooted
my Mac  - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier helped me climb
out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP" embarrasssingly).
So I added a note about that on the page.

It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the instructions on this page.

(more comments inline)

Cheers,
Peter.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?

My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is MIDI enabled
or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop.

If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no onboard soundcard,
with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard.

Peter.

 

Steve

On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
> on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
> sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>
> On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>
> Peter.
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with my
>>
>> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>
>> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>
>>
>> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>
>> currently have in the Manual):
>>
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>
>>
>> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>> interpretation.
>>
>> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>
>> normal humans can understand.
>>
>> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>> Timidity.
>>
>> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the Wiki
>>
>> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>
>>
>> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra stuff,
>> no tweaking
>>
>> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out comes the
>> sound ...
>>
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Stevethefiddle
On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page:
>>
>> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us recommending a package
>> like this whose website shows that it has not been maintained/updated
>> since
>> 5th September 2009.
>>
>> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email in this
>> thread, he
>> shares my misgivings in regard to this.
>
>
> I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us.  Did he not say he still
> recommends SimpleSynth to students?  So why not let our manual do the same?
>
> So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant (or nicely
> stable?) since 2009.  Can Roger recommend another more up to date, recently
> maintained, and reputable third party software synth for mention in our
> manual?
>
> How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other third-party
> software such as LAME?

LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who builds the
version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is freely
available.

Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third party software.

>
>>
>>
>>
>> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us needing to
>> recommend
>> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users - and indeed
>> software
>> that is no longer maintained and tended.
>> I do have grave misgivings about this.
>>
>> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play MIDI files
>> without the need or
>> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday.  Double-clicking
>> on a MIDI file
>> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne played with
>> no other
>> intervention - so my thinking is:  if Garageband can do that, why can't
>> Audacity?
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>
>
> My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal MIDI
> renderer.

Yes it does.

>
> And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight program for MIDI
> play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this release.
>
> Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding more third-party
> libraries to our build, wouldn't it?  Not gonna happen in 2.2.0.

There are some other third party options that I've been looking at,
but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback has
only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we need to
link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to
update the Mac documentation after release?

Steve

>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Peter:
>>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth not having
>>> been updated since 2009.
>>>
>>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window that looks
>>> somewhat different from yours.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” working
>>> computer until I know more about it.
>>>
>>> — Bill
>>>
>>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft instructions
>>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac;
>>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac
>>>
>>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware synth
>>> after I reboooted
>>> my Mac  - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier helped me
>>> climb
>>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP"
>>> embarrasssingly).
>>> So I added a note about that on the page.
>>>
>>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the instructions on
>>> this page.
>>>
>>> (more comments inline)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
>>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
>>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
>>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
>>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?
>>>
>>>
>>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is MIDI
>>> enabled
>>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop.
>>>
>>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no onboard
>>> soundcard,
>>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard.
>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
>>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
>>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>>>> >
>>>> > Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
>>>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with
>>>> >> my
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>>> >>
>>>> >> currently have in the Manual):
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>>>> >> interpretation.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>>> >>
>>>> >> normal humans can understand.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>>>> >> Timidity.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the
>>>> >> Wiki
>>>> >>
>>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra
>>>> >> stuff,
>>>> >> no tweaking
>>>> >>
>>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out
>>>> >> comes the
>>>> >> sound ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thoughts please.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
>>> http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Peter Sampson-2
Steve and I (mainly Steve) have been working on a parallel page for enabling
MIDI playback on Linux:
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/Enabling_MIDI_playback_on_Linux

My original thought was to have these pages in the Manual - but I'm beginning
to like Steve's suggestion to place them in the Wiki - as then we can tweak them
if necessary post 2.2.0 release.

Thoughts please?

Peter.

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page:
>>
>> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us recommending a package
>> like this whose website shows that it has not been maintained/updated
>> since
>> 5th September 2009.
>>
>> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email in this
>> thread, he
>> shares my misgivings in regard to this.
>
>
> I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us.  Did he not say he still
> recommends SimpleSynth to students?  So why not let our manual do the same?
>
> So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant (or nicely
> stable?) since 2009.  Can Roger recommend another more up to date, recently
> maintained, and reputable third party software synth for mention in our
> manual?
>
> How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other third-party
> software such as LAME?

LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who builds the
version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is freely
available.

Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third party software.

>
>>
>>
>>
>> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us needing to
>> recommend
>> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users - and indeed
>> software
>> that is no longer maintained and tended.
>> I do have grave misgivings about this.
>>
>> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play MIDI files
>> without the need or
>> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday.  Double-clicking
>> on a MIDI file
>> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne played with
>> no other
>> intervention - so my thinking is:  if Garageband can do that, why can't
>> Audacity?
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>
>
> My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal MIDI
> renderer.

Yes it does.

>
> And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight program for MIDI
> play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this release.
>
> Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding more third-party
> libraries to our build, wouldn't it?  Not gonna happen in 2.2.0.

There are some other third party options that I've been looking at,
but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback has
only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we need to
link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to
update the Mac documentation after release?

Steve

>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Peter:
>>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth not having
>>> been updated since 2009.
>>>
>>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window that looks
>>> somewhat different from yours.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” working
>>> computer until I know more about it.
>>>
>>> — Bill
>>>
>>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft instructions
>>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac;
>>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac
>>>
>>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware synth
>>> after I reboooted
>>> my Mac  - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier helped me
>>> climb
>>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP"
>>> embarrasssingly).
>>> So I added a note about that on the page.
>>>
>>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the instructions on
>>> this page.
>>>
>>> (more comments inline)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
>>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
>>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
>>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
>>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?
>>>
>>>
>>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is MIDI
>>> enabled
>>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop.
>>>
>>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no onboard
>>> soundcard,
>>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard.
>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
>>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
>>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>>>> >
>>>> > Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
>>>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with
>>>> >> my
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>>> >>
>>>> >> currently have in the Manual):
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>>>> >> interpretation.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>>> >>
>>>> >> normal humans can understand.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>>>> >> Timidity.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the
>>>> >> Wiki
>>>> >>
>>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra
>>>> >> stuff,
>>>> >> no tweaking
>>>> >>
>>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out
>>>> >> comes the
>>>> >> sound ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thoughts please.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
>>> http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Paul Licameli
In reply to this post by Stevethefiddle


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page:
>>
>> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us recommending a package
>> like this whose website shows that it has not been maintained/updated
>> since
>> 5th September 2009.
>>
>> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email in this
>> thread, he
>> shares my misgivings in regard to this.
>
>
> I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us.  Did he not say he still
> recommends SimpleSynth to students?  So why not let our manual do the same?
>
> So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant (or nicely
> stable?) since 2009.  Can Roger recommend another more up to date, recently
> maintained, and reputable third party software synth for mention in our
> manual?
>
> How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other third-party
> software such as LAME?

LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who builds the
version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is freely
available.

Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third party software.

>
>>
>>
>>
>> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us needing to
>> recommend
>> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users - and indeed
>> software
>> that is no longer maintained and tended.
>> I do have grave misgivings about this.
>>
>> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play MIDI files
>> without the need or
>> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday.  Double-clicking
>> on a MIDI file
>> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne played with
>> no other
>> intervention - so my thinking is:  if Garageband can do that, why can't
>> Audacity?
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>
>
> My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal MIDI
> renderer.

Yes it does.


Eureka!  GarageBand can play the MIDI stream that Audacity emits!

This discovery was not obvious, even after reading several of GarageBand's help pages, while loop-playing some MIDI silently in Audacity.

But then I ignored the help pages and right-clicked on one of the track headers in the display, and chose "New Software Instrument Track."

Voila!  A new instrument appeared in the display, and I heard the music, as electric piano.

Now I am not familiar enough with GarageBand to separate the input channels that it is playing and vary the instruments as I can with SimpleSynth.  Or, to get GarageBand to display the same as it would if I opened the MIDI file directly.

But this is something.  You CAN do it on a Macbook just with what's in the box.

PRL

 
>
> And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight program for MIDI
> play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this release.
>
> Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding more third-party
> libraries to our build, wouldn't it?  Not gonna happen in 2.2.0.

There are some other third party options that I've been looking at,
but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback has
only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we need to
link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to
update the Mac documentation after release?

Steve

>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Peter:
>>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth not having
>>> been updated since 2009.
>>>
>>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window that looks
>>> somewhat different from yours.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” working
>>> computer until I know more about it.
>>>
>>> — Bill
>>>
>>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft instructions
>>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac;
>>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac
>>>
>>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware synth
>>> after I reboooted
>>> my Mac  - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier helped me
>>> climb
>>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP"
>>> embarrasssingly).
>>> So I added a note about that on the page.
>>>
>>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the instructions on
>>> this page.
>>>
>>> (more comments inline)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
>>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
>>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
>>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
>>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?
>>>
>>>
>>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is MIDI
>>> enabled
>>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop.
>>>
>>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no onboard
>>> soundcard,
>>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard.
>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
>>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
>>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>>>> >
>>>> > Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
>>>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with
>>>> >> my
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>>> >>
>>>> >> currently have in the Manual):
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>>>> >> interpretation.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>>> >>
>>>> >> normal humans can understand.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>>>> >> Timidity.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the
>>>> >> Wiki
>>>> >>
>>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra
>>>> >> stuff,
>>>> >> no tweaking
>>>> >>
>>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out
>>>> >> comes the
>>>> >> sound ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thoughts please.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
>>> http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Peter Sampson-2


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page:
>>
>> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us recommending a package
>> like this whose website shows that it has not been maintained/updated
>> since
>> 5th September 2009.
>>
>> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email in this
>> thread, he
>> shares my misgivings in regard to this.
>
>
> I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us.  Did he not say he still
> recommends SimpleSynth to students?  So why not let our manual do the same?
>
> So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant (or nicely
> stable?) since 2009.  Can Roger recommend another more up to date, recently
> maintained, and reputable third party software synth for mention in our
> manual?
>
> How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other third-party
> software such as LAME?

LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who builds the
version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is freely
available.

Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third party software.

>
>>
>>
>>
>> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us needing to
>> recommend
>> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users - and indeed
>> software
>> that is no longer maintained and tended.
>> I do have grave misgivings about this.
>>
>> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play MIDI files
>> without the need or
>> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday.  Double-clicking
>> on a MIDI file
>> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne played with
>> no other
>> intervention - so my thinking is:  if Garageband can do that, why can't
>> Audacity?
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>
>
> My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal MIDI
> renderer.

Yes it does.


Eureka!  GarageBand can play the MIDI stream that Audacity emits!

This discovery was not obvious, even after reading several of GarageBand's help pages, while loop-playing some MIDI silently in Audacity.

But then I ignored the help pages and right-clicked on one of the track headers in the display, and chose "New Software Instrument Track."

Voila!  A new instrument appeared in the display, and I heard the music, as electric piano.

Now I am not familiar enough with GarageBand to separate the input channels that it is playing and vary the instruments as I can with SimpleSynth.  Or, to get GarageBand to display the same as it would if I opened the MIDI file directly.

But this is something.  You CAN do it on a Macbook just with what's in the box.


And the steps to reproduce are ...

Please.

Peter.

 

PRL

 
>
> And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight program for MIDI
> play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this release.
>
> Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding more third-party
> libraries to our build, wouldn't it?  Not gonna happen in 2.2.0.

There are some other third party options that I've been looking at,
but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback has
only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we need to
link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to
update the Mac documentation after release?

Steve

>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Peter:
>>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth not having
>>> been updated since 2009.
>>>
>>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window that looks
>>> somewhat different from yours.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” working
>>> computer until I know more about it.
>>>
>>> — Bill
>>>
>>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft instructions
>>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac;
>>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac
>>>
>>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware synth
>>> after I reboooted
>>> my Mac  - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier helped me
>>> climb
>>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP"
>>> embarrasssingly).
>>> So I added a note about that on the page.
>>>
>>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the instructions on
>>> this page.
>>>
>>> (more comments inline)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
>>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
>>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
>>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
>>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?
>>>
>>>
>>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is MIDI
>>> enabled
>>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop.
>>>
>>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no onboard
>>> soundcard,
>>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard.
>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
>>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
>>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>>>> >
>>>> > Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
>>>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with
>>>> >> my
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>>> >>
>>>> >> currently have in the Manual):
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>>>> >> interpretation.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>>> >>
>>>> >> normal humans can understand.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>>>> >> Timidity.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the
>>>> >> Wiki
>>>> >>
>>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra
>>>> >> stuff,
>>>> >> no tweaking
>>>> >>
>>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out
>>>> >> comes the
>>>> >> sound ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thoughts please.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
>>> http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Paul Licameli


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page:
>>
>> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us recommending a package
>> like this whose website shows that it has not been maintained/updated
>> since
>> 5th September 2009.
>>
>> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email in this
>> thread, he
>> shares my misgivings in regard to this.
>
>
> I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us.  Did he not say he still
> recommends SimpleSynth to students?  So why not let our manual do the same?
>
> So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant (or nicely
> stable?) since 2009.  Can Roger recommend another more up to date, recently
> maintained, and reputable third party software synth for mention in our
> manual?
>
> How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other third-party
> software such as LAME?

LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who builds the
version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is freely
available.

Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third party software.

>
>>
>>
>>
>> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us needing to
>> recommend
>> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users - and indeed
>> software
>> that is no longer maintained and tended.
>> I do have grave misgivings about this.
>>
>> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play MIDI files
>> without the need or
>> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday.  Double-clicking
>> on a MIDI file
>> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne played with
>> no other
>> intervention - so my thinking is:  if Garageband can do that, why can't
>> Audacity?
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>
>
> My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal MIDI
> renderer.

Yes it does.


Eureka!  GarageBand can play the MIDI stream that Audacity emits!

This discovery was not obvious, even after reading several of GarageBand's help pages, while loop-playing some MIDI silently in Audacity.

But then I ignored the help pages and right-clicked on one of the track headers in the display, and chose "New Software Instrument Track."

Voila!  A new instrument appeared in the display, and I heard the music, as electric piano.

Now I am not familiar enough with GarageBand to separate the input channels that it is playing and vary the instruments as I can with SimpleSynth.  Or, to get GarageBand to display the same as it would if I opened the MIDI file directly.

But this is something.  You CAN do it on a Macbook just with what's in the box.


And the steps to reproduce are ...

Please.

As I said, there is a right button context menu if you click above any of the volume sliders of the track.

Or even easier:  Alt+Command+S.

PRL

 


Peter.

 

PRL

 
>
> And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight program for MIDI
> play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this release.
>
> Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding more third-party
> libraries to our build, wouldn't it?  Not gonna happen in 2.2.0.

There are some other third party options that I've been looking at,
but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback has
only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we need to
link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to
update the Mac documentation after release?

Steve

>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Peter:
>>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth not having
>>> been updated since 2009.
>>>
>>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window that looks
>>> somewhat different from yours.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” working
>>> computer until I know more about it.
>>>
>>> — Bill
>>>
>>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft instructions
>>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac;
>>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac
>>>
>>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware synth
>>> after I reboooted
>>> my Mac  - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier helped me
>>> climb
>>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP"
>>> embarrasssingly).
>>> So I added a note about that on the page.
>>>
>>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the instructions on
>>> this page.
>>>
>>> (more comments inline)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
>>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
>>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
>>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
>>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?
>>>
>>>
>>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is MIDI
>>> enabled
>>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop.
>>>
>>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no onboard
>>> soundcard,
>>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard.
>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
>>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
>>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>>>> >
>>>> > Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
>>>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with
>>>> >> my
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>>> >>
>>>> >> currently have in the Manual):
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>>>> >> interpretation.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>>> >>
>>>> >> normal humans can understand.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>>>> >> Timidity.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the
>>>> >> Wiki
>>>> >>
>>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra
>>>> >> stuff,
>>>> >> no tweaking
>>>> >>
>>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out
>>>> >> comes the
>>>> >> sound ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thoughts please.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
>>> http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Getting MIDI playback on MAc with Audacity

Paul Licameli


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page:
>>
>> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us recommending a package
>> like this whose website shows that it has not been maintained/updated
>> since
>> 5th September 2009.
>>
>> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email in this
>> thread, he
>> shares my misgivings in regard to this.
>
>
> I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us.  Did he not say he still
> recommends SimpleSynth to students?  So why not let our manual do the same?
>
> So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant (or nicely
> stable?) since 2009.  Can Roger recommend another more up to date, recently
> maintained, and reputable third party software synth for mention in our
> manual?
>
> How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other third-party
> software such as LAME?

LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who builds the
version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is freely
available.

Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third party software.

>
>>
>>
>>
>> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us needing to
>> recommend
>> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users - and indeed
>> software
>> that is no longer maintained and tended.
>> I do have grave misgivings about this.
>>
>> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play MIDI files
>> without the need or
>> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday.  Double-clicking
>> on a MIDI file
>> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne played with
>> no other
>> intervention - so my thinking is:  if Garageband can do that, why can't
>> Audacity?
>>
>> Thoughts please.
>
>
> My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal MIDI
> renderer.

Yes it does.


Eureka!  GarageBand can play the MIDI stream that Audacity emits!

This discovery was not obvious, even after reading several of GarageBand's help pages, while loop-playing some MIDI silently in Audacity.

But then I ignored the help pages and right-clicked on one of the track headers in the display, and chose "New Software Instrument Track."

Voila!  A new instrument appeared in the display, and I heard the music, as electric piano.

Now I am not familiar enough with GarageBand to separate the input channels that it is playing and vary the instruments as I can with SimpleSynth.  Or, to get GarageBand to display the same as it would if I opened the MIDI file directly.

But this is something.  You CAN do it on a Macbook just with what's in the box.


And the steps to reproduce are ...

Please.

As I said, there is a right button context menu if you click above any of the volume sliders of the track.

Or even easier:  Alt+Command+S.

PRL


Now for some bad news.  A little bit of playing around gives me the failure of notes-off sometimes, which Steve thought he encountered before, then thought he didn't.  That should be a high priority bug.  But probably a simple thing once we discover the problem.

PRL

 
 


Peter.

 

PRL

 
>
> And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight program for MIDI
> play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this release.
>
> Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding more third-party
> libraries to our build, wouldn't it?  Not gonna happen in 2.2.0.

There are some other third party options that I've been looking at,
but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback has
only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we need to
link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to
update the Mac documentation after release?

Steve

>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Peter:
>>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth not having
>>> been updated since 2009.
>>>
>>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window that looks
>>> somewhat different from yours.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” working
>>> computer until I know more about it.
>>>
>>> — Bill
>>>
>>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft instructions
>>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac;
>>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac
>>>
>>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware synth
>>> after I reboooted
>>> my Mac  - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier helped me
>>> climb
>>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP"
>>> embarrasssingly).
>>> So I added a note about that on the page.
>>>
>>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the instructions on
>>> this page.
>>>
>>> (more comments inline)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess that on
>>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has an
>>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out of the
>>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI synth,
>>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested this?
>>>
>>>
>>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is MIDI
>>> enabled
>>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop.
>>>
>>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no onboard
>>> soundcard,
>>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard.
>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just double-clicking
>>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation tweaks) just
>>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it (with WMP)
>>>> >
>>>> > Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson
>>>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of arm-wrestling with
>>>> >> my
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it with an
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Audacity Note track.  But getting there was very painful.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me  (and that we
>>>> >>
>>>> >> currently have in the Manual):
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we say)
>>>> >> interpretation.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - one which
>>>> >>
>>>> >> normal humans can understand.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on Linux with
>>>> >> Timidity.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual or in the
>>>> >> Wiki
>>>> >>
>>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide right now.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no installing extra
>>>> >> stuff,
>>>> >> no tweaking
>>>> >>
>>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press Play - out
>>>> >> comes the
>>>> >> sound ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thoughts please.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Peter.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
>>> http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Audacity-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
123
Loading...