I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

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I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

Paul Licameli
... try it out at:

a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4

PRL


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Re: I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

David Bailes-3
On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
... try it out at:

a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4

From one of the commit messages:
... The old effect of TAB -- to rotate the selected label, when a Label track
has focus -- is still available, but only when the pointer is not on a text 
box or a label glyph. 

Please, no. This is very user unfriendly.
A user clicks in the name of a label to edit it, mouse pointer stays over the label name, presses tab, nothing happens.
Or, mouse pointer is accidentally over a label name, user presses tab, and has no idea why it doesn't work.

David.
 
PRL


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Re: I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

Stevethefiddle
On 13 July 2017 at 09:41, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> ... try it out at:
>>
>> a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4
>
>
> From one of the commit messages:
>
> ... The old effect of TAB -- to rotate the selected label, when a Label
> track
> has focus -- is still available, but only when the pointer is not on a text
>
> box or a label glyph.
>
> Please, no. This is very user unfriendly.
> A user clicks in the name of a label to edit it, mouse pointer stays over
> the label name, presses tab, nothing happens.
> Or, mouse pointer is accidentally over a label name, user presses tab, and
> has no idea why it doesn't work.

Agreed, that could easily happen and would be confusing as there is no
indication why pressing Tab "doesn't work" (as the user would see it).
Surely we're too late in the release cycle to be making (contentious)
behavioural  changes.

Steve

>
> David.
>
>>
>> PRL
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>
>
>
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Re: I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

Paul Licameli


On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 13 July 2017 at 09:41, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> ... try it out at:
>>
>> a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4
>
>
> From one of the commit messages:
>
> ... The old effect of TAB -- to rotate the selected label, when a Label
> track
> has focus -- is still available, but only when the pointer is not on a text
>
> box or a label glyph.
>
> Please, no. This is very user unfriendly.
> A user clicks in the name of a label to edit it, mouse pointer stays over
> the label name, presses tab, nothing happens.
> Or, mouse pointer is accidentally over a label name, user presses tab, and
> has no idea why it doesn't work.

Agreed, that could easily happen and would be confusing as there is no
indication why pressing Tab "doesn't work" (as the user would see it).
Surely we're too late in the release cycle to be making (contentious)
behavioural  changes.

Steve

Very well, I will restore behavior of TAB when a Label track has focus.

However I wish to preserve this new behavior of TAB in other cases.

PRL

 

>
> David.
>
>>
>> PRL
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

Stevethefiddle
On 13 July 2017 at 12:48, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 13 July 2017 at 09:41, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ... try it out at:
>> >>
>> >> a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4
>> >
>> >
>> > From one of the commit messages:
>> >
>> > ... The old effect of TAB -- to rotate the selected label, when a Label
>> > track
>> > has focus -- is still available, but only when the pointer is not on a
>> > text
>> >
>> > box or a label glyph.
>> >
>> > Please, no. This is very user unfriendly.
>> > A user clicks in the name of a label to edit it, mouse pointer stays
>> > over
>> > the label name, presses tab, nothing happens.
>> > Or, mouse pointer is accidentally over a label name, user presses tab,
>> > and
>> > has no idea why it doesn't work.
>>
>> Agreed, that could easily happen and would be confusing as there is no
>> indication why pressing Tab "doesn't work" (as the user would see it).
>> Surely we're too late in the release cycle to be making (contentious)
>> behavioural  changes.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> Very well, I will restore behavior of TAB when a Label track has focus.
>
> However I wish to preserve this new behavior of TAB in other cases.

Perhaps you should describe what those other cases are so that they
can be properly tested before release.

Steve

>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > David.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> PRL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > audacity-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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Re: I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

Paul Licameli


On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 13 July 2017 at 12:48, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 13 July 2017 at 09:41, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ... try it out at:
>> >>
>> >> a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4
>> >
>> >
>> > From one of the commit messages:
>> >
>> > ... The old effect of TAB -- to rotate the selected label, when a Label
>> > track
>> > has focus -- is still available, but only when the pointer is not on a
>> > text
>> >
>> > box or a label glyph.
>> >
>> > Please, no. This is very user unfriendly.
>> > A user clicks in the name of a label to edit it, mouse pointer stays
>> > over
>> > the label name, presses tab, nothing happens.
>> > Or, mouse pointer is accidentally over a label name, user presses tab,
>> > and
>> > has no idea why it doesn't work.
>>
>> Agreed, that could easily happen and would be confusing as there is no
>> indication why pressing Tab "doesn't work" (as the user would see it).
>> Surely we're too late in the release cycle to be making (contentious)
>> behavioural  changes.
>>
>> Steve
>
>
> Very well, I will restore behavior of TAB when a Label track has focus.
>
> However I wish to preserve this new behavior of TAB in other cases.

Perhaps you should describe what those other cases are so that they
can be properly tested before release.

Steve


Yes.  As mentioned in my commit comments, one example is that TAB can now alternate between the stretch and selection cursors in a note track.  Another example is that in multi tool, it may alternate between selection and envelope, or selection and draw, or it may even cycle among the three.  In Select or Multi tool, when the mouse is near a cutline or mergeable boundary, you can get another alteration.

If you TAB to the non-default cursor for the mouse position, and move the mouse, then the cursor should remain the same, until the mouse enters the hot zone of some other hit target.

Watch the changes if status bar messages too.

PRL
 
>
> PRL
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > David.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> PRL
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > audacity-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

Stevethefiddle
When mouse over a split line in an audio track with the normal
Selection tool, pressing Tab does nothing.
Pressing Tab a second time changes the status bar text from
"Left-Click to merge clips" to "Click and drag to select audio".
Pressing Tab a third time changes the status bar text back to
"Left-Click to merge clips".
To go back to "Click and drag to select audio", the Tab key must be
pressed twice.

Note that retaining the mouse pointer precisely over the split line
while pressing a key on the keyboard and looking away from the mouse
pointer is not easy, especially with a high resolution monitor. If the
mouse pointer drifts a tiny fraction off the split line, the behaviour
returns to "Left-Click to merge clips".

If the mouse pointer is not precisely over the split line on the first
press of the Tab key, then focus moves off the audio track and the
above behaviour does not work, repeated presses of Tab just moves
focus around the Audacity interface.

I don't object strongly to this new behaviour as I can simply ignore
it, but in my opinion it fails to recognise basic principles of user
interface design.

Steve

On 13 July 2017 at 14:21, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 13 July 2017 at 12:48, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Steve the Fiddle
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 13 July 2017 at 09:41, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Paul Licameli
>> >> > <[hidden email]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ... try it out at:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > From one of the commit messages:
>> >> >
>> >> > ... The old effect of TAB -- to rotate the selected label, when a
>> >> > Label
>> >> > track
>> >> > has focus -- is still available, but only when the pointer is not on
>> >> > a
>> >> > text
>> >> >
>> >> > box or a label glyph.
>> >> >
>> >> > Please, no. This is very user unfriendly.
>> >> > A user clicks in the name of a label to edit it, mouse pointer stays
>> >> > over
>> >> > the label name, presses tab, nothing happens.
>> >> > Or, mouse pointer is accidentally over a label name, user presses
>> >> > tab,
>> >> > and
>> >> > has no idea why it doesn't work.
>> >>
>> >> Agreed, that could easily happen and would be confusing as there is no
>> >> indication why pressing Tab "doesn't work" (as the user would see it).
>> >> Surely we're too late in the release cycle to be making (contentious)
>> >> behavioural  changes.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >
>> >
>> > Very well, I will restore behavior of TAB when a Label track has focus.
>> >
>> > However I wish to preserve this new behavior of TAB in other cases.
>>
>> Perhaps you should describe what those other cases are so that they
>> can be properly tested before release.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> Yes.  As mentioned in my commit comments, one example is that TAB can now
> alternate between the stretch and selection cursors in a note track.
> Another example is that in multi tool, it may alternate between selection
> and envelope, or selection and draw, or it may even cycle among the three.
> In Select or Multi tool, when the mouse is near a cutline or mergeable
> boundary, you can get another alteration.
>
> If you TAB to the non-default cursor for the mouse position, and move the
> mouse, then the cursor should remain the same, until the mouse enters the
> hot zone of some other hit target.
>
> Watch the changes if status bar messages too.
>
> PRL
>
>>
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > David.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> PRL
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> >> [hidden email]
>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>> >
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by Paul Licameli
On 13 July 2017 at 14:21, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 13 July 2017 at 12:48, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Steve the Fiddle
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 13 July 2017 at 09:41, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Paul Licameli
>> >> > <[hidden email]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ... try it out at:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > From one of the commit messages:
>> >> >
>> >> > ... The old effect of TAB -- to rotate the selected label, when a
>> >> > Label
>> >> > track
>> >> > has focus -- is still available, but only when the pointer is not on
>> >> > a
>> >> > text
>> >> >
>> >> > box or a label glyph.
>> >> >
>> >> > Please, no. This is very user unfriendly.
>> >> > A user clicks in the name of a label to edit it, mouse pointer stays
>> >> > over
>> >> > the label name, presses tab, nothing happens.
>> >> > Or, mouse pointer is accidentally over a label name, user presses
>> >> > tab,
>> >> > and
>> >> > has no idea why it doesn't work.
>> >>
>> >> Agreed, that could easily happen and would be confusing as there is no
>> >> indication why pressing Tab "doesn't work" (as the user would see it).
>> >> Surely we're too late in the release cycle to be making (contentious)
>> >> behavioural  changes.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >
>> >
>> > Very well, I will restore behavior of TAB when a Label track has focus.
>> >
>> > However I wish to preserve this new behavior of TAB in other cases.
>>
>> Perhaps you should describe what those other cases are so that they
>> can be properly tested before release.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> Yes.  As mentioned in my commit comments, one example is that TAB can now
> alternate between the stretch and selection cursors in a note track.
> Another example is that in multi tool, it may alternate between selection
> and envelope, or selection and draw, or it may even cycle among the three.
> In Select or Multi tool, when the mouse is near a cutline or mergeable
> boundary, you can get another alteration.
>
> If you TAB to the non-default cursor for the mouse position, and move the
> mouse, then the cursor should remain the same, until the mouse enters the
> hot zone of some other hit target.

Does that refer to Multi-Tool too?


Gale


> Watch the changes if status bar messages too.
>
> PRL
>
>>
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > David.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> PRL
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> >> [hidden email]
>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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Re: I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

Paul Licameli
In reply to this post by Stevethefiddle


On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
When mouse over a split line in an audio track with the normal
Selection tool, pressing Tab does nothing.
Pressing Tab a second time changes the status bar text from
"Left-Click to merge clips" to "Click and drag to select audio".
Pressing Tab a third time changes the status bar text back to
"Left-Click to merge clips".
To go back to "Click and drag to select audio", the Tab key must be
pressed twice.

Note that retaining the mouse pointer precisely over the split line
while pressing a key on the keyboard and looking away from the mouse
pointer is not easy, especially with a high resolution monitor. If the
mouse pointer drifts a tiny fraction off the split line, the behaviour
returns to "Left-Click to merge clips".

If the mouse pointer is not precisely over the split line on the first
press of the Tab key, then focus moves off the audio track and the
above behaviour does not work, repeated presses of Tab just moves
focus around the Audacity interface.

I don't object strongly to this new behaviour as I can simply ignore
it, but in my opinion it fails to recognise basic principles of user
interface design.

The duplication of the cutline in the TAB key cycle for select tool is fixed at f24a704a5bae0660835dbda4876997ef91a34e22

On Mac I do not observe the change of focus that you describe.

Explain what principle of design is not recognized here.  I want to implement a way to disambiguate hit targets that are near a common mouse point. TAB is a key often used to cycle among alternatives.  Should it be some other key?

PRL

 

Steve

On 13 July 2017 at 14:21, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 13 July 2017 at 12:48, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Steve the Fiddle
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 13 July 2017 at 09:41, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Paul Licameli
>> >> > <[hidden email]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ... try it out at:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > From one of the commit messages:
>> >> >
>> >> > ... The old effect of TAB -- to rotate the selected label, when a
>> >> > Label
>> >> > track
>> >> > has focus -- is still available, but only when the pointer is not on
>> >> > a
>> >> > text
>> >> >
>> >> > box or a label glyph.
>> >> >
>> >> > Please, no. This is very user unfriendly.
>> >> > A user clicks in the name of a label to edit it, mouse pointer stays
>> >> > over
>> >> > the label name, presses tab, nothing happens.
>> >> > Or, mouse pointer is accidentally over a label name, user presses
>> >> > tab,
>> >> > and
>> >> > has no idea why it doesn't work.
>> >>
>> >> Agreed, that could easily happen and would be confusing as there is no
>> >> indication why pressing Tab "doesn't work" (as the user would see it).
>> >> Surely we're too late in the release cycle to be making (contentious)
>> >> behavioural  changes.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >
>> >
>> > Very well, I will restore behavior of TAB when a Label track has focus.
>> >
>> > However I wish to preserve this new behavior of TAB in other cases.
>>
>> Perhaps you should describe what those other cases are so that they
>> can be properly tested before release.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> Yes.  As mentioned in my commit comments, one example is that TAB can now
> alternate between the stretch and selection cursors in a note track.
> Another example is that in multi tool, it may alternate between selection
> and envelope, or selection and draw, or it may even cycle among the three.
> In Select or Multi tool, when the mouse is near a cutline or mergeable
> boundary, you can get another alteration.
>
> If you TAB to the non-default cursor for the mouse position, and move the
> mouse, then the cursor should remain the same, until the mouse enters the
> hot zone of some other hit target.
>
> Watch the changes if status bar messages too.
>
> PRL
>
>>
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > David.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> PRL
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> >> [hidden email]
>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > audacity-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> audacity-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
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Re: I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

Paul Licameli


On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
When mouse over a split line in an audio track with the normal
Selection tool, pressing Tab does nothing.
Pressing Tab a second time changes the status bar text from
"Left-Click to merge clips" to "Click and drag to select audio".
Pressing Tab a third time changes the status bar text back to
"Left-Click to merge clips".
To go back to "Click and drag to select audio", the Tab key must be
pressed twice.

Note that retaining the mouse pointer precisely over the split line
while pressing a key on the keyboard and looking away from the mouse
pointer is not easy, especially with a high resolution monitor. If the
mouse pointer drifts a tiny fraction off the split line, the behaviour
returns to "Left-Click to merge clips".

If the mouse pointer is not precisely over the split line on the first
press of the Tab key, then focus moves off the audio track and the
above behaviour does not work, repeated presses of Tab just moves
focus around the Audacity interface.

I don't object strongly to this new behaviour as I can simply ignore
it, but in my opinion it fails to recognise basic principles of user
interface design.

The duplication of the cutline in the TAB key cycle for select tool is fixed at f24a704a5bae0660835dbda4876997ef91a34e22

On Mac I do not observe the change of focus that you describe.

Explain what principle of design is not recognized here.  I want to implement a way to disambiguate hit targets that are near a common mouse point. TAB is a key often used to cycle among alternatives.  Should it be some other key?

PRL

I don't understand your complaint about needing to look away from the pointer.  I expect it to be easy enough with little practice to keep the right hand on the mouse, the left hand on TAB, found by feel, and the eyes on the screen.

Is the ESC even easier to find by feel?  But I would not like to overload the meaning of ESC for this purpose as well as for escaping from drags.

PRL



 

Steve

On 13 July 2017 at 14:21, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 13 July 2017 at 12:48, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Steve the Fiddle
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 13 July 2017 at 09:41, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Paul Licameli
>> >> > <[hidden email]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ... try it out at:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > From one of the commit messages:
>> >> >
>> >> > ... The old effect of TAB -- to rotate the selected label, when a
>> >> > Label
>> >> > track
>> >> > has focus -- is still available, but only when the pointer is not on
>> >> > a
>> >> > text
>> >> >
>> >> > box or a label glyph.
>> >> >
>> >> > Please, no. This is very user unfriendly.
>> >> > A user clicks in the name of a label to edit it, mouse pointer stays
>> >> > over
>> >> > the label name, presses tab, nothing happens.
>> >> > Or, mouse pointer is accidentally over a label name, user presses
>> >> > tab,
>> >> > and
>> >> > has no idea why it doesn't work.
>> >>
>> >> Agreed, that could easily happen and would be confusing as there is no
>> >> indication why pressing Tab "doesn't work" (as the user would see it).
>> >> Surely we're too late in the release cycle to be making (contentious)
>> >> behavioural  changes.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >
>> >
>> > Very well, I will restore behavior of TAB when a Label track has focus.
>> >
>> > However I wish to preserve this new behavior of TAB in other cases.
>>
>> Perhaps you should describe what those other cases are so that they
>> can be properly tested before release.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> Yes.  As mentioned in my commit comments, one example is that TAB can now
> alternate between the stretch and selection cursors in a note track.
> Another example is that in multi tool, it may alternate between selection
> and envelope, or selection and draw, or it may even cycle among the three.
> In Select or Multi tool, when the mouse is near a cutline or mergeable
> boundary, you can get another alteration.
>
> If you TAB to the non-default cursor for the mouse position, and move the
> mouse, then the cursor should remain the same, until the mouse enters the
> hot zone of some other hit target.
>
> Watch the changes if status bar messages too.
>
> PRL
>
>>
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > David.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> PRL
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> >> [hidden email]
>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > audacity-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> audacity-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> audacity-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>

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Re: I have implemented TAB key cycling among multiple hit tests in TrackPanel

Paul Licameli
In reply to this post by Gale


On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 13 July 2017 at 14:21, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 9:01 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 13 July 2017 at 12:48, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Steve the Fiddle
>> > <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 13 July 2017 at 09:41, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Paul Licameli
>> >> > <[hidden email]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ... try it out at:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> a618ec8967f455e53de5763fe7327c6a949803d4
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > From one of the commit messages:
>> >> >
>> >> > ... The old effect of TAB -- to rotate the selected label, when a
>> >> > Label
>> >> > track
>> >> > has focus -- is still available, but only when the pointer is not on
>> >> > a
>> >> > text
>> >> >
>> >> > box or a label glyph.
>> >> >
>> >> > Please, no. This is very user unfriendly.
>> >> > A user clicks in the name of a label to edit it, mouse pointer stays
>> >> > over
>> >> > the label name, presses tab, nothing happens.
>> >> > Or, mouse pointer is accidentally over a label name, user presses
>> >> > tab,
>> >> > and
>> >> > has no idea why it doesn't work.
>> >>
>> >> Agreed, that could easily happen and would be confusing as there is no
>> >> indication why pressing Tab "doesn't work" (as the user would see it).
>> >> Surely we're too late in the release cycle to be making (contentious)
>> >> behavioural  changes.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >
>> >
>> > Very well, I will restore behavior of TAB when a Label track has focus.
>> >
>> > However I wish to preserve this new behavior of TAB in other cases.
>>
>> Perhaps you should describe what those other cases are so that they
>> can be properly tested before release.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> Yes.  As mentioned in my commit comments, one example is that TAB can now
> alternate between the stretch and selection cursors in a note track.
> Another example is that in multi tool, it may alternate between selection
> and envelope, or selection and draw, or it may even cycle among the three.
> In Select or Multi tool, when the mouse is near a cutline or mergeable
> boundary, you can get another alteration.
>
> If you TAB to the non-default cursor for the mouse position, and move the
> mouse, then the cursor should remain the same, until the mouse enters the
> hot zone of some other hit target.

Does that refer to Multi-Tool too?


Yes, Gale.

PRL

 


Gale


> Watch the changes if status bar messages too.
>
> PRL
>
>>
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > David.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> PRL
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> >> [hidden email]
>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> audacity-devel mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > audacity-devel mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>> audacity-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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