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Latest commit build

Cliff Scott
Build finds all the plugins just fine, but if installed to a different location than the original we still have duplicate plugins. Installing over the top correctly disables an existing duplicate. Of course you can still see the duplicate in the Plugin Manager.

No noticeable startup waiting, but this is a fast machine with an SSD so I didn't expect a wait unless I had a very large number of plugins.

BTW, does anyone know what the HRTFPanner effect does? Clicking on it does nothing. It apparently is an Apple plugin.

Cliff
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Re: Latest commit build

Gale
Administrator
Thanks for testing.

On 7 February 2017 at 19:47, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Build finds all the plugins just fine, but if installed to a different location
> than the original we still have duplicate plugins.

That is a feature not a bug, as they say, assuming this is a second
installation without deleting pluginregistry.cfg.


> Installing over the top correctly disables an existing duplicate.

Can you clarify what you mean there, Cliff?  Install the all-in-one
Audacity.app into the same location when it already exists there?


> Of course you can still see the duplicate in the Plugin Manager.

Are these the duplicates from the old Audacity installation folder?


> No noticeable startup waiting, but this is a fast machine with an
> SSD so I didn't expect a wait unless I had a very large number of
> plugins.

The only plugins that are being checked for existence on launch at
the moment are Nyquist.

I recall when Audio Units were full-scanned on launch, users that
had several hundred Audio Units could be waiting minutes for
Audacity to launch.


> BTW, does anyone know what the HRTFPanner effect does?
> Clicking on it does nothing. It apparently is an Apple plugin.

It's some kind of binaural effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function

But that can go on Bugzilla, because it pops up in 2.1.1 but not in
2.1.2 or 2.1.3 (just one time, accessing it crashed 2.1.2).


Gale

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Re: Latest commit build

Cliff Scott

> On Feb 7, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for testing.
>
> On 7 February 2017 at 19:47, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Build finds all the plugins just fine, but if installed to a different location
>> than the original we still have duplicate plugins.
>
> That is a feature not a bug, as they say, assuming this is a second
> installation without deleting pluginregistry.cfg.
>
>
>> Installing over the top correctly disables an existing duplicate.
>
> Can you clarify what you mean there, Cliff?  Install the all-in-one
> Audacity.app into the same location when it already exists there?

This was installing over an older version of Audacity. The plugins I was referring to were in the ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/plug-ins folder as well as in the Application's plug-ins folder so it existed it 2 places. The older version showed the duplication in the Effects dropdown list. Installing the new build over the too of that removed the duplication appearing in the dropdown list of effects, but it still was visible in the Plugins Manager list and the one in the Application's plug-ins folder was marked Disabled.

>
>
>> Of course you can still see the duplicate in the Plugin Manager.
>
> Are these the duplicates from the old Audacity installation folder?

Sort of. See above.

>
>
>> No noticeable startup waiting, but this is a fast machine with an
>> SSD so I didn't expect a wait unless I had a very large number of
>> plugins.
>
> The only plugins that are being checked for existence on launch at
> the moment are Nyquist.

Right.

>
> I recall when Audio Units were full-scanned on launch, users that
> had several hundred Audio Units could be waiting minutes for
> Audacity to launch.

Not good in these days of impatience.

Cliff

>
>
>> BTW, does anyone know what the HRTFPanner effect does?
>> Clicking on it does nothing. It apparently is an Apple plugin.
>
> It's some kind of binaural effect:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function
>
> But that can go on Bugzilla, because it pops up in 2.1.1 but not in
> 2.1.2 or 2.1.3 (just one time, accessing it crashed 2.1.2).
>
>
> Gale
>
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Re: Latest commit build

Gale
Administrator
On 7 February 2017 at 21:01, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for testing.
>>
>> On 7 February 2017 at 19:47, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Build finds all the plugins just fine, but if installed to a different location
>>> than the original we still have duplicate plugins.
>>
>> That is a feature not a bug, as they say, assuming this is a second
>> installation without deleting pluginregistry.cfg.
>>
>>
>>> Installing over the top correctly disables an existing duplicate.
>>
>> Can you clarify what you mean there, Cliff?  Install the all-in-one
>> Audacity.app into the same location when it already exists there?
>
> This was installing over an older version of Audacity. The plugins I was referring to were in the ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/plug-ins folder as well as in the Application's plug-ins folder so it existed it 2 places. The older version showed the duplication in the Effects dropdown list. Installing the new build over the too of that removed the duplication appearing in the dropdown list of effects, but it still was visible in the Plugins Manager list and the one in the Application's plug-ins folder was marked Disabled.

Any duplicates in different locations that still exist should remain as
working duplicates, as far as I know.


Gale


>>> Of course you can still see the duplicate in the Plugin Manager.
>>
>> Are these the duplicates from the old Audacity installation folder?
>
> Sort of. See above.
>
>>
>>
>>> No noticeable startup waiting, but this is a fast machine with an
>>> SSD so I didn't expect a wait unless I had a very large number of
>>> plugins.
>>
>> The only plugins that are being checked for existence on launch at
>> the moment are Nyquist.
>
> Right.
>
>>
>> I recall when Audio Units were full-scanned on launch, users that
>> had several hundred Audio Units could be waiting minutes for
>> Audacity to launch.
>
> Not good in these days of impatience.
>
> Cliff
>>
>>
>>> BTW, does anyone know what the HRTFPanner effect does?
>>> Clicking on it does nothing. It apparently is an Apple plugin.
>>
>> It's some kind of binaural effect:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function
>>
>> But that can go on Bugzilla, because it pops up in 2.1.1 but not in
>> 2.1.2 or 2.1.3 (just one time, accessing it crashed 2.1.2).
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>
>
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: Latest commit build

Cliff Scott

> On Feb 7, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 7 February 2017 at 21:01, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for testing.
>>>
>>> On 7 February 2017 at 19:47, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Build finds all the plugins just fine, but if installed to a different location
>>>> than the original we still have duplicate plugins.
>>>
>>> That is a feature not a bug, as they say, assuming this is a second
>>> installation without deleting pluginregistry.cfg.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Installing over the top correctly disables an existing duplicate.
>>>
>>> Can you clarify what you mean there, Cliff?  Install the all-in-one
>>> Audacity.app into the same location when it already exists there?
>>
>> This was installing over an older version of Audacity. The plugins I was referring to were in the ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/plug-ins folder as well as in the Application's plug-ins folder so it existed it 2 places. The older version showed the duplication in the Effects dropdown list. Installing the new build over the too of that removed the duplication appearing in the dropdown list of effects, but it still was visible in the Plugins Manager list and the one in the Application's plug-ins folder was marked Disabled.
>
> Any duplicates in different locations that still exist should remain as
> working duplicates, as far as I know.
>
>
> Gale

In this case the new build did not leave the added plugins in the Application's folder so in reality there was only one copy left so the drop down list was correct, but the Plugin Manager still pointed to non-existent plugins.

Isn't this what the intent was to get rid of the "ghosts"? I'm just surprised that a non-existent plugin is still in the Plugin Manager though IIRC there was quite a difference of opinion how this should be handled.

Cliff
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Re: Latest commit build

Gale
Administrator
On 8 February 2017 at 00:43, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 7 February 2017 at 21:01, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for testing.
>>>>
>>>> On 7 February 2017 at 19:47, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Build finds all the plugins just fine, but if installed to a different location
>>>>> than the original we still have duplicate plugins.
>>>>
>>>> That is a feature not a bug, as they say, assuming this is a second
>>>> installation without deleting pluginregistry.cfg.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Installing over the top correctly disables an existing duplicate.
>>>>
>>>> Can you clarify what you mean there, Cliff?  Install the all-in-one
>>>> Audacity.app into the same location when it already exists there?
>>>
>>> This was installing over an older version of Audacity. The plugins I was referring to were in the ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/plug-ins folder as well as in the Application's plug-ins folder so it existed it 2 places. The older version showed the duplication in the Effects dropdown list. Installing the new build over the too of that removed the duplication appearing in the dropdown list of effects, but it still was visible in the Plugins Manager list and the one in the Application's plug-ins folder was marked Disabled.
>>
>> Any duplicates in different locations that still exist should remain as
>> working duplicates, as far as I know.
>>
>>
>> Gale
>
> In this case the new build did not leave the added plugins in the Application's folder so in reality there was only one copy left so the drop down list was correct, but the Plugin Manager still pointed to non-existent plugins.

Sorry I am still not really clear what you installed over the top of what
but I don't think it matters.

I thought you meant copy all-in-one Audacity.app over Audacity.app in
the old Audacity folder for 2.1.2, but that leaves working duplicates
as I would expect.


> Isn't this what the intent was to get rid of the "ghosts"? I'm just surprised that a non-existent plugin is still in the Plugin Manager though IIRC there was quite a difference of opinion how this should be handled.

I wish we had not used the term "ghosts", but it means effects listed
in the menus that don't initialise because the effect no longer exists.

We're removing the problem of most "ghosts" if you had previous
Audacity then deleted its installation folder by removing all non-existent
Nyquist plugins from the effect menu.

I preferred making a special case for previously shipped duplicates
(existent or not) by removing them from pluginregistry.cfg and thus
from the menus and Plug-in Manager, but James had reasons not to.

So we still have to decide later whether effects that are removed from
the menus are also removed from Plug-in Manager, and what extra
features the Manager should have.


Gale

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Re: Latest commit build

Cliff Scott

> On Feb 7, 2017, at 7:39 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 8 February 2017 at 00:43, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 7 February 2017 at 21:01, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for testing.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7 February 2017 at 19:47, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> Build finds all the plugins just fine, but if installed to a different location
>>>>>> than the original we still have duplicate plugins.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is a feature not a bug, as they say, assuming this is a second
>>>>> installation without deleting pluginregistry.cfg.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Installing over the top correctly disables an existing duplicate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you clarify what you mean there, Cliff?  Install the all-in-one
>>>>> Audacity.app into the same location when it already exists there?
>>>>
>>>> This was installing over an older version of Audacity. The plugins I was referring to were in the ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/plug-ins folder as well as in the Application's plug-ins folder so it existed it 2 places. The older version showed the duplication in the Effects dropdown list. Installing the new build over the too of that removed the duplication appearing in the dropdown list of effects, but it still was visible in the Plugins Manager list and the one in the Application's plug-ins folder was marked Disabled.
>>>
>>> Any duplicates in different locations that still exist should remain as
>>> working duplicates, as far as I know.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>
>> In this case the new build did not leave the added plugins in the Application's folder so in reality there was only one copy left so the drop down list was correct, but the Plugin Manager still pointed to non-existent plugins.
>
> Sorry I am still not really clear what you installed over the top of what
> but I don't think it matters.


Sorry I wasn't clear. I overwrote a build I had done on Dec 30 which was an all in one version so in my opinion it did what it should have done.

>
> I thought you meant copy all-in-one Audacity.app over Audacity.app in
> the old Audacity folder for 2.1.2, but that leaves working duplicates
> as I would expect.
>
>
>> Isn't this what the intent was to get rid of the "ghosts"? I'm just surprised that a non-existent plugin is still in the Plugin Manager though IIRC there was quite a difference of opinion how this should be handled.
>
> I wish we had not used the term "ghosts", but it means effects listed
> in the menus that don't initialise because the effect no longer exists.
>
> We're removing the problem of most "ghosts" if you had previous
> Audacity then deleted its installation folder by removing all non-existent
> Nyquist plugins from the effect menu.
>
> I preferred making a special case for previously shipped duplicates
> (existent or not) by removing them from pluginregistry.cfg and thus
> from the menus and Plug-in Manager, but James had reasons not to.
>
> So we still have to decide later whether effects that are removed from
> the menus are also removed from Plug-in Manager, and what extra
> features the Manager should have.
>
>
> Gale

Understand. Looking forward to what 2.1.4 will bring.

Cliff
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Re: Latest commit build

Gale
Administrator
On 8 February 2017 at 01:44, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 7:39 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 8 February 2017 at 00:43, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 7 February 2017 at 21:01, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for testing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7 February 2017 at 19:47, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>> Build finds all the plugins just fine, but if installed to a different location
>>>>>>> than the original we still have duplicate plugins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is a feature not a bug, as they say, assuming this is a second
>>>>>> installation without deleting pluginregistry.cfg.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Installing over the top correctly disables an existing duplicate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you clarify what you mean there, Cliff?  Install the all-in-one
>>>>>> Audacity.app into the same location when it already exists there?
>>>>>
>>>>> This was installing over an older version of Audacity. The plugins I was referring to were in the ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/plug-ins folder as well as in the Application's plug-ins folder so it existed it 2 places. The older version showed the duplication in the Effects dropdown list. Installing the new build over the too of that removed the duplication appearing in the dropdown list of effects, but it still was visible in the Plugins Manager list and the one in the Application's plug-ins folder was marked Disabled.
>>>>
>>>> Any duplicates in different locations that still exist should remain as
>>>> working duplicates, as far as I know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gale
>>>
>>> In this case the new build did not leave the added plugins in the Application's folder so in reality there was only one copy left so the drop down list was correct, but the Plugin Manager still pointed to non-existent plugins.
>>
>> Sorry I am still not really clear what you installed over the top of what
>> but I don't think it matters.
>
>
> Sorry I wasn't clear. I overwrote a build I had done on Dec 30 which was an all in one version so in my opinion it did what it should have done.

So if you installed the new in the same location as old, there aren't
any duplicates - the path to the plugins is the same.

As I remarked though, you will lose any optional plugins you
put inside the bundle when you overwrite. The Mac doesn't treat
all-in-one as a folder and so has no option to let you keep files that
are not are not in the new installation.


Gale

>> I thought you meant copy all-in-one Audacity.app over Audacity.app in
>> the old Audacity folder for 2.1.2, but that leaves working duplicates
>> as I would expect.
>>
>>
>>> Isn't this what the intent was to get rid of the "ghosts"? I'm just surprised that a non-existent plugin is still in the Plugin Manager though IIRC there was quite a difference of opinion how this should be handled.
>>
>> I wish we had not used the term "ghosts", but it means effects listed
>> in the menus that don't initialise because the effect no longer exists.
>>
>> We're removing the problem of most "ghosts" if you had previous
>> Audacity then deleted its installation folder by removing all non-existent
>> Nyquist plugins from the effect menu.
>>
>> I preferred making a special case for previously shipped duplicates
>> (existent or not) by removing them from pluginregistry.cfg and thus
>> from the menus and Plug-in Manager, but James had reasons not to.
>>
>> So we still have to decide later whether effects that are removed from
>> the menus are also removed from Plug-in Manager, and what extra
>> features the Manager should have.
>>
>>
>> Gale
>
> Understand. Looking forward to what 2.1.4 will bring.
>
> Cliff
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Re: Latest commit build

Cliff Scott

> On Feb 7, 2017, at 7:54 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 8 February 2017 at 01:44, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 7:39 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 8 February 2017 at 00:43, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7 February 2017 at 21:01, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 2:42 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for testing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7 February 2017 at 19:47, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Build finds all the plugins just fine, but if installed to a different location
>>>>>>>> than the original we still have duplicate plugins.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is a feature not a bug, as they say, assuming this is a second
>>>>>>> installation without deleting pluginregistry.cfg.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Installing over the top correctly disables an existing duplicate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you clarify what you mean there, Cliff?  Install the all-in-one
>>>>>>> Audacity.app into the same location when it already exists there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was installing over an older version of Audacity. The plugins I was referring to were in the ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/plug-ins folder as well as in the Application's plug-ins folder so it existed it 2 places. The older version showed the duplication in the Effects dropdown list. Installing the new build over the too of that removed the duplication appearing in the dropdown list of effects, but it still was visible in the Plugins Manager list and the one in the Application's plug-ins folder was marked Disabled.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any duplicates in different locations that still exist should remain as
>>>>> working duplicates, as far as I know.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gale
>>>>
>>>> In this case the new build did not leave the added plugins in the Application's folder so in reality there was only one copy left so the drop down list was correct, but the Plugin Manager still pointed to non-existent plugins.
>>>
>>> Sorry I am still not really clear what you installed over the top of what
>>> but I don't think it matters.
>>
>>
>> Sorry I wasn't clear. I overwrote a build I had done on Dec 30 which was an all in one version so in my opinion it did what it should have done.
>
> So if you installed the new in the same location as old, there aren't
> any duplicates - the path to the plugins is the same.
>
> As I remarked though, you will lose any optional plugins you
> put inside the bundle when you overwrite. The Mac doesn't treat
> all-in-one as a folder and so has no option to let you keep files that
> are not are not in the new installation.
>
>
> Gale

That is what I was trying to say. Same location, but the original one had additional plugins added to the bundle manually and those were lost in the install of the new build as they should have been. The pluginregistry.cfg still has both paths in it, but since the one path points to a non-existent plugin now it doesn't show as a duplicate in the effects dropdown list with the latest changes by James. It would have before  if I understand what he did correctly.

Cliff

>
>>> I thought you meant copy all-in-one Audacity.app over Audacity.app in
>>> the old Audacity folder for 2.1.2, but that leaves working duplicates
>>> as I would expect.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Isn't this what the intent was to get rid of the "ghosts"? I'm just surprised that a non-existent plugin is still in the Plugin Manager though IIRC there was quite a difference of opinion how this should be handled.
>>>
>>> I wish we had not used the term "ghosts", but it means effects listed
>>> in the menus that don't initialise because the effect no longer exists.
>>>
>>> We're removing the problem of most "ghosts" if you had previous
>>> Audacity then deleted its installation folder by removing all non-existent
>>> Nyquist plugins from the effect menu.
>>>
>>> I preferred making a special case for previously shipped duplicates
>>> (existent or not) by removing them from pluginregistry.cfg and thus
>>> from the menus and Plug-in Manager, but James had reasons not to.
>>>
>>> So we still have to decide later whether effects that are removed from
>>> the menus are also removed from Plug-in Manager, and what extra
>>> features the Manager should have.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>
>> Understand. Looking forward to what 2.1.4 will bring.
>>
>> Cliff
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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