Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque

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Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque

Osoitz E

Hello,

My name is Osoitz, and I beg you to take the following petition into consideration:

---


We write you on behalf of a community of Free Software localizers who are concerned about the language being used in the current translation of Audacity into Basque (eu).

Librezale.eus is an open community of volunteer Free Software translators which over a period of nearly 15 years has become a de-facto centerpiece for people to get support and collaborate in the area of Basque translations.

Through our common communication channels, frequent complaints arise about the quality of Audacity’s translation.

Any requests from volunteers to participate in the Audacity translation project are rejected without further explanations and, as you might notice, Xabier Aramendi is the only member of the Basque team in Transifex.

Unfortunately, the fact of him being notably hermetic is no news to us, and any past attempts to communicate or collaborate with him have been in vain — if not receiving confrontational messages.

The language being used in the current translation uses made-up words, consistently ignoring dictionaries and linguists, let alone translation conventions or expectations of fellow translators and users. This means the UI becomes unusable even to native speakers.

Should it be required, we are happy to provide very specific linguistic evidence of the incorrect language and terminology being used. Nevertheless, we’d like to point you to a past experience where we had to fight the same issue in the context of the VLC media player project.

Note how VLC developers ended up contacting the official institute of the Basque language (Euskaltzaindia) in order to make an informed decision on the matter.

Having said all of that, we would like to kindly ask you to revoke Xabier Aramendi's role as a coordinator of the Audacity translation project into Basque, or at least have the translation project currently owned by him moved to a different locale code, considering that the current work doesn’t belong to Basque (eu).

Likewise, we would like to suggest Osoitz Elkorobarrutia (with username 'Osoitz' in Transifex) as the new project coordinator for the ‘eu’ locale, and we can vouch for his dedicated effort which will ensure Audacity’s health in the near and long-term future.

We believe this would help unblock the situation where individuals and collectives are deprived of using Audacity in a UI language they could understand.

Signers of the petition

  • Alexander Gabilondo - Translator of Roundcube, Curlew, BackinTime, OBS-Studio, Viking, Zim, Epoptes and others.

  • Ander Elortondo - Translator of Super Tux Kart, Tux paint and others.

  • Asier Sarasua - Translator of LibreOffice, FreeCAD, QGIS, Scribus and others, Basque Wikimedians User group.

  • Asier Iturralde - Translator of Mint, F-droid, LXDE, Mate, and others

  • Gorka Azkarate - Translator of Wikia, Calibre, Klavaro and more, Basque Teacher, Basque Wikimedians User Group .

  • Ibon Idoiaga Basaras - Translator of phpBB, FBReader, Calibre, Piwigo.
  • Iñaki Larrañaga Murgoitio - Translator for GNOME, LyX. And Legacy Translator of OpenOffice.org, VLC, Cinelerra, Inkscape and more.

  • Joseba Makazaga -  Head of the Department of Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence, University of the Basque Country (UPV/EHU). User of Audacity.Joseba Makazaga -  Head of the Department of Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence, University of the Basque Country (UPV/EHU). User of Audacity.
  • Julen Ruiz Aizpuru - Translator of Firefox and others.

  • Marko Txopitea - Translator of WordPress and others.  

  • Mikel Iturbe - Translator of ScummVM, Cryptocat, Freemind and others. Basque Wikimedians User Group

  • Mikel Larreategi - Translator of Plone, former translator of WordPress

  • Mikel Olasagasti - Member of GNU Translation Project.

  • Urtzi Odriozola Lizaso - Translator of Popcorn Time, Super Tux Kart and games like StepMania 5, Super Tux, 0AD and others
  • Osoitz Elkorobarrutia - Translator of LibreOffice, LineageOS, F-droid, and others.


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Re: Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque

Thomas De Rocker-2

The current Basque "team manager" of Audacity in Transifex is Beluga. I suggest you contact him for editing members.


Regards


Thomas De Rocker (RockyTDR on Transifex)



Van: Osoitz E <[hidden email]>
Verzonden: maandag 17 juli 2017 10:06
Aan: [hidden email]
Onderwerp: [Audacity-translation] Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque
 

Hello,

My name is Osoitz, and I beg you to take the following petition into consideration:

---


We write you on behalf of a community of Free Software localizers who are concerned about the language being used in the current translation of Audacity into Basque (eu).

Librezale.eus is an open community of volunteer Free Software translators which over a period of nearly 15 years has become a de-facto centerpiece for people to get support and collaborate in the area of Basque translations.

Through our common communication channels, frequent complaints arise about the quality of Audacity’s translation.

Any requests from volunteers to participate in the Audacity translation project are rejected without further explanations and, as you might notice, Xabier Aramendi is the only member of the Basque team in Transifex.

Unfortunately, the fact of him being notably hermetic is no news to us, and any past attempts to communicate or collaborate with him have been in vain — if not receiving confrontational messages.

The language being used in the current translation uses made-up words, consistently ignoring dictionaries and linguists, let alone translation conventions or expectations of fellow translators and users. This means the UI becomes unusable even to native speakers.

Should it be required, we are happy to provide very specific linguistic evidence of the incorrect language and terminology being used. Nevertheless, we’d like to point you to a past experience where we had to fight the same issue in the context of the VLC media player project.

Note how VLC developers ended up contacting the official institute of the Basque language (Euskaltzaindia) in order to make an informed decision on the matter.

Having said all of that, we would like to kindly ask you to revoke Xabier Aramendi's role as a coordinator of the Audacity translation project into Basque, or at least have the translation project currently owned by him moved to a different locale code, considering that the current work doesn’t belong to Basque (eu).

Likewise, we would like to suggest Osoitz Elkorobarrutia (with username 'Osoitz' in Transifex) as the new project coordinator for the ‘eu’ locale, and we can vouch for his dedicated effort which will ensure Audacity’s health in the near and long-term future.

We believe this would help unblock the situation where individuals and collectives are deprived of using Audacity in a UI language they could understand.

Signers of the petition

  • Alexander Gabilondo - Translator of Roundcube, Curlew, BackinTime, OBS-Studio, Viking, Zim, Epoptes and others.

  • Ander Elortondo - Translator of Super Tux Kart, Tux paint and others.

  • Asier Sarasua - Translator of LibreOffice, FreeCAD, QGIS, Scribus and others, Basque Wikimedians User group.

  • Asier Iturralde - Translator of Mint, F-droid, LXDE, Mate, and others

  • Gorka Azkarate - Translator of Wikia, Calibre, Klavaro and more, Basque Teacher, Basque Wikimedians User Group .

  • Ibon Idoiaga Basaras - Translator of phpBB, FBReader, Calibre, Piwigo.
  • Iñaki Larrañaga Murgoitio - Translator for GNOME, LyX. And Legacy Translator of OpenOffice.org, VLC, Cinelerra, Inkscape and more.

  • Joseba Makazaga -  Head of the Department of Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence, University of the Basque Country (UPV/EHU). User of Audacity.Joseba Makazaga -  Head of the Department of Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence, University of the Basque Country (UPV/EHU). User of Audacity.
  • Julen Ruiz Aizpuru - Translator of Firefox and others.

  • Marko Txopitea - Translator of WordPress and others.  

  • Mikel Iturbe - Translator of ScummVM, Cryptocat, Freemind and others. Basque Wikimedians User Group

  • Mikel Larreategi - Translator of Plone, former translator of WordPress

  • Mikel Olasagasti - Member of GNU Translation Project.

  • Urtzi Odriozola Lizaso - Translator of Popcorn Time, Super Tux Kart and games like StepMania 5, Super Tux, 0AD and others
  • Osoitz Elkorobarrutia - Translator of LibreOffice, LineageOS, F-droid, and others.


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Re: Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque

James Crook
In reply to this post by Osoitz E
Thanks Osoitz.

We (Audacity team) don't control or run the Transifex site.
We do however take .po files posted to this email address and include
them in Audacity releases.

IF we receive two competing translations for the same country code, we
will have to make a decision on which one to use, or whether to use both
and offer different language codes.  At the moment we are only receiving
one .eu translation, so our decision is easy.

I am expecting that for 2.2.0 there will be new language files for
translating soon.  If you would like to organise translation of that,
then we will be in the situation of having competing translations to
choose between.



I am based in Ireland.  In Ireland there are different dialects of the
Gaelic language spoken, and disagreements about what correct Gaelic is.  
The disagreements can get quite heated.


Please recommend a country code that you think we should use for Xabier
Aramendi's translation file, and what language name to use.  We for
example already support zh_CN and zh_TW [Chinese (Simplified) and
Chinese (Traditional)],  pt_BR and pt_PT [Portugues (Brasil) and
Portugues] and sr_RS and sr_RS@latin [Serbian (Cyrillic) and Serbian
(Latin)]


Thanks,


--James.






On 7/17/2017 9:06 AM, Osoitz E wrote:

> Hello,
>
> My name is Osoitz, and I beg you to take the following petition into
> consideration:
>
> ---
>
>
> We write you on behalf of a community of Free Software localizers who are
> concerned about the language being used in the current translation of
> Audacity into Basque (eu).
>
> Librezale.eus is an open community of volunteer Free Software translators
> which over a period of nearly 15 years has become a de-facto centerpiece
> for people to get support and collaborate in the area of Basque
> translations.
>
> Through our common communication channels, frequent complaints arise about
> the quality of Audacity’s translation.
>
> Any requests from volunteers to participate in the Audacity translation
> project are rejected without further explanations and, as you might notice,
> Xabier Aramendi is the only member of the Basque team in Transifex.
>
> Unfortunately, the fact of him being notably hermetic is no news to us, and
> any past attempts to communicate or collaborate with him have been in vain
> — if not receiving confrontational messages.
>
> The language being used in the current translation uses made-up words,
> consistently ignoring dictionaries and linguists, let alone translation
> conventions or expectations of fellow translators and users. This means the
> UI becomes unusable even to native speakers.
>
> Should it be required, we are happy to provide very specific linguistic
> evidence of the incorrect language and terminology being used.
> Nevertheless, we’d like to point you to a past experience where we had to
> fight the same issue in the context of the VLC media player project.
>
>     -
>
>     Initial communication of the problem to VLC developers:
>
>     https://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/vlc-devel/2012-February/085884.html
>     -
>
>     Lack of willingness to collaborate:
>     https://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/translators/2012-June/001075.html
>     https://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/translators/2012-June/001070.html
>
>
>     -
>
>     Resolution:
>     https://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/vlc-devel/2013-February/092051.html
>
> Note how VLC developers ended up contacting the official institute of the
> Basque language (Euskaltzaindia) in order to make an informed decision on
> the matter.
>
> Having said all of that, we would like to kindly ask you to revoke Xabier
> Aramendi's role as a coordinator of the Audacity translation project into
> Basque, or at least have the translation project currently owned by him
> moved to a different locale code, considering that the current work doesn’t
> belong to Basque (eu).
>
> Likewise, we would like to suggest Osoitz Elkorobarrutia (with username
> 'Osoitz' in Transifex) as the new project coordinator for the ‘eu’ locale,
> and we can vouch for his dedicated effort which will ensure Audacity’s
> health in the near and long-term future.
>
> We believe this would help unblock the situation where individuals and
> collectives are deprived of using Audacity in a UI language they could
> understand.
>
> Signers of the petition
>
>     -
>
>     Alexander Gabilondo - Translator of Roundcube, Curlew, BackinTime,
>     OBS-Studio, Viking, Zim, Epoptes and others.
>     -
>
>     Ander Elortondo - Translator of Super Tux Kart, Tux paint and others.
>     -
>
>     Asier Sarasua - Translator of LibreOffice, FreeCAD, QGIS, Scribus and
>     others, Basque Wikimedians User group.
>     -
>
>     Asier Iturralde - Translator of Mint, F-droid, LXDE, Mate, and others
>     -
>
>     Gorka Azkarate - Translator of Wikia, Calibre, Klavaro and more, Basque
>     Teacher, Basque Wikimedians User Group .
>     - Ibon Idoiaga Basaras - Translator of phpBB, FBReader, Calibre, Piwigo.
>     -
>
>     Iñaki Larrañaga Murgoitio - Translator for GNOME, LyX. And Legacy
>     Translator of OpenOffice.org, VLC, Cinelerra, Inkscape and more.
>     - Joseba Makazaga -  Head of the Department of Computer Science and
>     Artificial Intelligence, University of the Basque Country (UPV/EHU). User
>     of Audacity.Joseba Makazaga -  Head of the Department of Computer
>     Science and Artificial Intelligence, University of the Basque Country
>     (UPV/EHU). User of Audacity.
>     -
>
>     Julen Ruiz Aizpuru - Translator of Firefox and others.
>     -
>
>     Marko Txopitea - Translator of WordPress and others.
>     -
>
>     Mikel Iturbe - Translator of ScummVM, Cryptocat, Freemind and others.
>     Basque Wikimedians User Group
>     -
>
>     Mikel Larreategi - Translator of Plone, former translator of WordPress
>     -
>
>     Mikel Olasagasti - Member of GNU Translation Project.
>     - Urtzi Odriozola Lizaso - Translator of Popcorn Time, Super Tux Kart
>     and games like StepMania 5, Super Tux, 0AD and others
>     -
>
>     Osoitz Elkorobarrutia - Translator of LibreOffice, LineageOS, F-droid,
>     and others.
>


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Re: Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque

Osoitz E
Hello,

> The current Basque "team manager" of Audacity in Transifex is Beluga

I just sent him a message, thank you.

> IF we receive two competing translations for the same country code, we will have to make a decision on which one to use, or whether to use both and offer different language codes.

What would be the deadline so that there's enough time to look at the issue before the release? The planned release date for Audacity 2.2.0 is August the 7nth, in such a short time what I can propose to the mailing list is a first set of corrections above the current translation along with an explanation to help you decide.

> Please recommend a country code that you think we should use for Xabier Aramendi's translation file, and what language name to use.

I want to emphasize that we are not talking about geographical or dialectal differences here, many words used by Xabier Aramendi are invented by himself  and used *only* by himself (Try to Google for example "itsustura" to find only Audacity's translation). He is laboriously creating a new language.

Therefore, I can not recommend to use an existing language code for the current translation, could 'xa' or 'eu_XA' be used perhaps? (XA being Xabier Aramendi).

Osoitz

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Re: Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque

Azpidatziak
Hi,

About Basque translation that I made for Audacity it's just "eu" and it's a great translation.
This fucking guys only use or acept spanish words, so it's a bad "eu_sp" that they want see.

Audacityk urte asko daramtza NIK euskaratuta, eta gutxien behar duena zuek bezalako espaioleri paraziopaio
madarikatuak izorratzera etortzea da.

Zuen espainoleri zipaio zerriaska itzulpenik ez dugu erabiltzerik ez ikusterik ere nahi,
eta ez pentsa mundu guztiaren edo gehiengoaren izenean hitz egiten duzuela.

Zuen asmo bakarra gure euskalduntasuna erasotzea eta zuen espainoleri zipaio zikina inposatzea
besterik ez da, baina jai duzue nirekin.

Eta ez esan ez dagoela gatazka geografikorik, zuen espainolkeria hitz puta bakoitzean inposatzen duzuenean.
Hortaz zuen itzulpena nahi baduzue, utzi bakean besteona, oso gustora eta maite duguna eta erabili
egitan zareten euskara_espainia kodea.

Ez dut honetaz berriro idatziko eta
ez haut berriro ikusterik.

....................................

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 19:40:12 +0200
Osoitz E <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> > The current *Basque "team manager"* of Audacity in Transifex is *Beluga
> <https://www.transifex.com/user/profile/Beluga/>*
>
> I just sent him a message, thank you.
>
> > IF we receive two competing translations for the same country code, we
> will have to make a decision on which one to use, or whether to use both
> and offer different language codes.
>
> What would be the deadline so that there's enough time to look at the issue
> before the release? The planned release date for Audacity 2.2.0 is August
> the 7nth, in such a short time what I can propose to the mailing list is a
> first set of corrections above the current translation along with an
> explanation to help you decide.
>
> > Please recommend a country code that you think we should use for Xabier
> Aramendi's translation file, and what language name to use.
>
> I want to emphasize that we are not talking about geographical or dialectal
> differences here, many words used by Xabier Aramendi are invented by
> himself  and used *only* by himself (Try to Google for example "itsustura"
> to find only Audacity's translation). He is laboriously creating a new
> language.
>
> Therefore, I can not recommend to use an existing language code for the
> current translation, could 'xa' or 'eu_XA' be used perhaps? (XA being
> Xabier Aramendi).
>
> Osoitz


--
Azpidatziak <[hidden email]>

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Re: Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque

James Crook
Azpidatziak...

No fucking swearwords on this e-mail list.  OK?  I don't care how
unreasonable you consider the 'opposition'.
More of that, and you make my decision very easy.

You have provided no translation for most of your email.  That's not
acceptable (on this email list) either.

We have the problem in Ireland that feelings run high about different
translations into Gaelic.  It's not unknown territory.

--James.



On 7/17/2017 7:12 PM, Azpidatziak wrote:

> Hi,
>
> About Basque translation that I made for Audacity it's just "eu" and it's a great translation.
> This fucking guys only use or acept spanish words, so it's a bad "eu_sp" that they want see.
>
> Audacityk urte asko daramtza NIK euskaratuta, eta gutxien behar duena zuek bezalako espaioleri paraziopaio
> madarikatuak izorratzera etortzea da.
>
> Zuen espainoleri zipaio zerriaska itzulpenik ez dugu erabiltzerik ez ikusterik ere nahi,
> eta ez pentsa mundu guztiaren edo gehiengoaren izenean hitz egiten duzuela.
>
> Zuen asmo bakarra gure euskalduntasuna erasotzea eta zuen espainoleri zipaio zikina inposatzea
> besterik ez da, baina jai duzue nirekin.
>
> Eta ez esan ez dagoela gatazka geografikorik, zuen espainolkeria hitz puta bakoitzean inposatzen duzuenean.
> Hortaz zuen itzulpena nahi baduzue, utzi bakean besteona, oso gustora eta maite duguna eta erabili
> egitan zareten euskara_espainia kodea.
>
> Ez dut honetaz berriro idatziko eta
> ez haut berriro ikusterik.
>
> ....................................
>
> On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 19:40:12 +0200
> Osoitz E <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>> The current *Basque "team manager"* of Audacity in Transifex is *Beluga
>> <https://www.transifex.com/user/profile/Beluga/>*
>>
>> I just sent him a message, thank you.
>>
>>> IF we receive two competing translations for the same country code, we
>> will have to make a decision on which one to use, or whether to use both
>> and offer different language codes.
>>
>> What would be the deadline so that there's enough time to look at the issue
>> before the release? The planned release date for Audacity 2.2.0 is August
>> the 7nth, in such a short time what I can propose to the mailing list is a
>> first set of corrections above the current translation along with an
>> explanation to help you decide.
>>
>>> Please recommend a country code that you think we should use for Xabier
>> Aramendi's translation file, and what language name to use.
>>
>> I want to emphasize that we are not talking about geographical or dialectal
>> differences here, many words used by Xabier Aramendi are invented by
>> himself  and used *only* by himself (Try to Google for example "itsustura"
>> to find only Audacity's translation). He is laboriously creating a new
>> language.
>>
>> Therefore, I can not recommend to use an existing language code for the
>> current translation, could 'xa' or 'eu_XA' be used perhaps? (XA being
>> Xabier Aramendi).
>>
>> Osoitz
>


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Re: Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque

James Crook
In reply to this post by Osoitz E
Hi Osoitz.

I would like to check whether you care about your users, or whether you care about something else.

Would you feel that giving Xabier's translation the code eu_EU [Basque] and your translation the code eu_ES [Basque (alternative)] a reasonable solution, given that we do not speak Basque and do not know the ins and outs?  If the answer is 'no', you might well be wasting your time working on an alternative to what we have used so far.

The current planned deadline for translation would be 30 July 2017.  It could easily slip to later, but that is Release Manager's decision and out of my hands.  There will be a new .pot file.  Given the amount of work in doing a new translation, rather than just updating an old one, it may be best to plan for it for Audacity 2.2.1, rather than 2.2.0.

--James.


On 7/17/2017 6:40 PM, Osoitz E wrote:
Hello,

The current *Basque "team manager"* of Audacity in Transifex is *Beluga
<https://www.transifex.com/user/profile/Beluga/>*

I just sent him a message, thank you.

IF we receive two competing translations for the same country code, we
will have to make a decision on which one to use, or whether to use both
and offer different language codes.

What would be the deadline so that there's enough time to look at the issue
before the release? The planned release date for Audacity 2.2.0 is August
the 7nth, in such a short time what I can propose to the mailing list is a
first set of corrections above the current translation along with an
explanation to help you decide.





Please recommend a country code that you think we should use for Xabier
Aramendi's translation file, and what language name to use.

I want to emphasize that we are not talking about geographical or dialectal
differences here, many words used by Xabier Aramendi are invented by
himself  and used *only* by himself (Try to Google for example "itsustura"
to find only Audacity's translation). He is laboriously creating a new
language.

Therefore, I can not recommend to use an existing language code for the
current translation, could 'xa' or 'eu_XA' be used perhaps? (XA being
Xabier Aramendi).

Osoitz



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Re: Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque

Osoitz E
Hi James,

> Would you feel that giving Xabier's translation the code eu_EU [Basque] and your translation the code eu_ES [Basque (alternative)] a reasonable solution

We even considered distributing an unofficial patch, we did so in the past with projects that didn't accept Basque officially yet, so I find your proposal better than the current situation.

Osoitz

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Re: Petition regarding Audacity's translation to Basque

Osoitz E
Sorry, regarding the name I propose instead "Basque - Xabier Aramendi" and "Basque - Librezale". That would help users anticipate what kind of translation they will find.

Osoitz

2017-07-17 21:39 GMT+02:00 Osoitz E <[hidden email]>:
Hi James,

> Would you feel that giving Xabier's translation the code eu_EU [Basque] and your translation the code eu_ES [Basque (alternative)] a reasonable solution

We even considered distributing an unofficial patch, we did so in the past with projects that didn't accept Basque officially yet, so I find your proposal better than the current situation.

Osoitz


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