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RC2 for windows and mac.

James Crook
I've posted signed RC2's for windows installer, windows zip and mac dmg at:

https://www.fosshub.com/Audacity-devel.html

I think I am now ONLY deleting .DS_Store files, and directories, in
doing a CleanDir.  If I've got that change wrong, Gale will see 1567
much much worse than for RC1, and we'd do a respin to RC3. So that is
the first thing we need to know.  Also a check that I have signed
correctly.  I think I have, as I did the same steps as for RC1.

If it is still looking OK tomorrow I'll do the linux tarball too.

--James.


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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

James Crook
I've put the Linux RC2 tarball up there as well now.

On 2/20/2017 7:30 PM, James Crook wrote:

> I've posted signed RC2's for windows installer, windows zip and mac dmg at:
>
> https://www.fosshub.com/Audacity-devel.html
>
> I think I am now ONLY deleting .DS_Store files, and directories, in
> doing a CleanDir.  If I've got that change wrong, Gale will see 1567
> much much worse than for RC1, and we'd do a respin to RC3. So that is
> the first thing we need to know.  Also a check that I have signed
> correctly.  I think I have, as I did the same steps as for RC1.
>
> If it is still looking OK tomorrow I'll do the linux tarball too.
>
> --James.


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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Stevethefiddle
Do we want to announce these on the forum / website so as to encourage
wider testing?

Steve

On 20 February 2017 at 21:32, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've put the Linux RC2 tarball up there as well now.
>
> On 2/20/2017 7:30 PM, James Crook wrote:
>> I've posted signed RC2's for windows installer, windows zip and mac dmg at:
>>
>> https://www.fosshub.com/Audacity-devel.html
>>
>> I think I am now ONLY deleting .DS_Store files, and directories, in
>> doing a CleanDir.  If I've got that change wrong, Gale will see 1567
>> much much worse than for RC1, and we'd do a respin to RC3. So that is
>> the first thing we need to know.  Also a check that I have signed
>> correctly.  I think I have, as I did the same steps as for RC1.
>>
>> If it is still looking OK tomorrow I'll do the linux tarball too.
>>
>> --James.
>
>
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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

James Crook
There is no point announcing them until
- Gale has done a sanity check that CleanDir is cleaning .DS_Store as
expected for bug 1567.
- Confirmation, sanity check, that signing is 'as expected' for dmg and
windows installer.

If I've broken Paul's partial workaround for 1567, I need to do an RC3.  
If I've broken it, it will likely be badly broken, and not deleting the
mac files it should.
If I've not signed correctly that would also be a change requiring an RC3.

If those two are OK, then yes, a forum post then would be good. Gale
notes that RCs usually get very little testing from forum, so we
shouldn't expect too much from there!

--James.



On 2/20/2017 9:52 PM, Steve the Fiddle wrote:

> Do we want to announce these on the forum / website so as to encourage
> wider testing?
>
> Steve
>
> On 20 February 2017 at 21:32, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I've put the Linux RC2 tarball up there as well now.
>>
>> On 2/20/2017 7:30 PM, James Crook wrote:
>>> I've posted signed RC2's for windows installer, windows zip and mac dmg at:
>>>
>>> https://www.fosshub.com/Audacity-devel.html
>>>
>>> I think I am now ONLY deleting .DS_Store files, and directories, in
>>> doing a CleanDir.  If I've got that change wrong, Gale will see 1567
>>> much much worse than for RC1, and we'd do a respin to RC3. So that is
>>> the first thing we need to know.  Also a check that I have signed
>>> correctly.  I think I have, as I did the same steps as for RC1.
>>>
>>> If it is still looking OK tomorrow I'll do the linux tarball too.
>>>
>>> --James.


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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Gale
Administrator
I really wouldn't bother with a general RC announcement on Forum. I think
we've done better this time by mentioning RC1 to selected users when
they post a question. It's worked best for Mac because we can point to
fixed bugs that Mac users care about, like drag and drop of files.

I have not tested RC1 myself yet -  later on.

I don't know how to test signing on Windows. I got an unsigned warning
for RC1 on Windows XP SP3, but Peter did not. And I get SmartScreen
warnings for RC1 on Windows 10 but no-one else does.

I had thought that codesigning would stop SmartScreen appearing but it
seems from:
https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ie/2012/08/14/microsoft-smartscreen-extended-validation-ev-code-signing-certificates/

and

https://blog.digicert.com/ms-smartscreen-application-reputation/

that codesigning just builds reputation faster, and Extended Validation (EV)
certificates fastest of all. Right? Is ours an EV certificate?



Gale


On 20 February 2017 at 22:13, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is no point announcing them until
> - Gale has done a sanity check that CleanDir is cleaning .DS_Store as
> expected for bug 1567.
> - Confirmation, sanity check, that signing is 'as expected' for dmg and
> windows installer.
>
> If I've broken Paul's partial workaround for 1567, I need to do an RC3.
> If I've broken it, it will likely be badly broken, and not deleting the
> mac files it should.
> If I've not signed correctly that would also be a change requiring an RC3.
>
> If those two are OK, then yes, a forum post then would be good. Gale
> notes that RCs usually get very little testing from forum, so we
> shouldn't expect too much from there!
>
> --James.
>
>
>
> On 2/20/2017 9:52 PM, Steve the Fiddle wrote:
>> Do we want to announce these on the forum / website so as to encourage
>> wider testing?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 20 February 2017 at 21:32, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I've put the Linux RC2 tarball up there as well now.
>>>
>>> On 2/20/2017 7:30 PM, James Crook wrote:
>>>> I've posted signed RC2's for windows installer, windows zip and mac dmg at:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.fosshub.com/Audacity-devel.html
>>>>
>>>> I think I am now ONLY deleting .DS_Store files, and directories, in
>>>> doing a CleanDir.  If I've got that change wrong, Gale will see 1567
>>>> much much worse than for RC1, and we'd do a respin to RC3. So that is
>>>> the first thing we need to know.  Also a check that I have signed
>>>> correctly.  I think I have, as I did the same steps as for RC1.
>>>>
>>>> If it is still looking OK tomorrow I'll do the linux tarball too.
>>>>
>>>> --James.
>
>
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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Gale
Administrator
Tested the Windows RC2's on Windows 10.

* The ZIP has a redundant ResetPrefs.txt. Fortunately it doesn't do
   what it says, as Audacity only obeys FirstTime.ini now, but it would
   seem better to get rid of ResetPrefs.txt from RC2 and I assume also
   from the sources.

* The installer seemed OK, installed over 2.1.2. Checked the commit
   ID in About Audacity which was correct and there is no SaveAs
   bug 1594.


Gale


On 20 February 2017 at 23:28, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I really wouldn't bother with a general RC announcement on Forum. I think
> we've done better this time by mentioning RC1 to selected users when
> they post a question. It's worked best for Mac because we can point to
> fixed bugs that Mac users care about, like drag and drop of files.
>
> I have not tested RC1 myself yet -  later on.
>
> I don't know how to test signing on Windows. I got an unsigned warning
> for RC1 on Windows XP SP3, but Peter did not. And I get SmartScreen
> warnings for RC1 on Windows 10 but no-one else does.
>
> I had thought that codesigning would stop SmartScreen appearing but it
> seems from:
> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ie/2012/08/14/microsoft-smartscreen-extended-validation-ev-code-signing-certificates/
>
> and
>
> https://blog.digicert.com/ms-smartscreen-application-reputation/
>
> that codesigning just builds reputation faster, and Extended Validation (EV)
> certificates fastest of all. Right? Is ours an EV certificate?
>
>
>
> Gale
>
>
> On 20 February 2017 at 22:13, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> There is no point announcing them until
>> - Gale has done a sanity check that CleanDir is cleaning .DS_Store as
>> expected for bug 1567.
>> - Confirmation, sanity check, that signing is 'as expected' for dmg and
>> windows installer.
>>
>> If I've broken Paul's partial workaround for 1567, I need to do an RC3.
>> If I've broken it, it will likely be badly broken, and not deleting the
>> mac files it should.
>> If I've not signed correctly that would also be a change requiring an RC3.
>>
>> If those two are OK, then yes, a forum post then would be good. Gale
>> notes that RCs usually get very little testing from forum, so we
>> shouldn't expect too much from there!
>>
>> --James.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/20/2017 9:52 PM, Steve the Fiddle wrote:
>>> Do we want to announce these on the forum / website so as to encourage
>>> wider testing?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> On 20 February 2017 at 21:32, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I've put the Linux RC2 tarball up there as well now.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/20/2017 7:30 PM, James Crook wrote:
>>>>> I've posted signed RC2's for windows installer, windows zip and mac dmg at:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.fosshub.com/Audacity-devel.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I am now ONLY deleting .DS_Store files, and directories, in
>>>>> doing a CleanDir.  If I've got that change wrong, Gale will see 1567
>>>>> much much worse than for RC1, and we'd do a respin to RC3. So that is
>>>>> the first thing we need to know.  Also a check that I have signed
>>>>> correctly.  I think I have, as I did the same steps as for RC1.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is still looking OK tomorrow I'll do the linux tarball too.
>>>>>
>>>>> --James.
>>
>>
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>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Cliff Scott
Tested RC2 on Mac 10.12.3 and all seems ok so far. All libs & effects found in Admin, Standard and Guest users.

Signing is ok. No issues in that regard.

Initial testing of the problem with deleting data files looks good.

Save, export etc. Directories seem to be still ok.

Cliff
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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Cliff Scott
In reply to this post by Gale
 I was reading the release notes and noticed these items. Since this is an RC then I assumed that the Manual is the latest version. Looking at the Help folders in Applications I see that they are dated Feb. 8th so apparently they are not up to date. Looking at what I think is the latest online prerelease version I see the same issues. If there is another location with really current wording then please point me to it and ignore the following.


- In the Effects and Analysis section:
  •  (Windows) Very rarely, Audacity 2.1.2 may show no built-in effects, generators or analyzers after upgrading from an earlier Audacity 2.1.x version. If this happens, open Effect > Add / Remove Plug-ins..., enable the built-in effects if not already showing as enabled, then click OK.
Do you really mean 2.1.2?

- I don't understand this statement under Imports/Exports:

 (OS X) iTunes files cannot be opened from Media > Music in Audacity's file open dialogs. You could drag your iTunes "Music" folder to the Finder sidebar to give quicker access in Audacity open dialogs. 

Is it saying I can't open files in the iTunes folders with the File/Open dialog? Surely not as that isn't a problem at all as the next statement in line indicates. I must be getting dense, but this statement doesn't make sense to me. iTunes Media folder just contains folders so of course one can't open a file there, but if I open a folder then I can open the files in that folder.

- Under Installation:

(Windows and OS X) On a first installation of Audacity, Save Project and Export default to saving in the Audacity installation folder. You will not be able to save or export there without sufficient permissions or authentication. Please change the save or export directory to a folder where you have full write permissions.

This isn't true anymore.

- Under Playback/Recording

(Mac OS X) The default 100 ms "Audio to buffer" setting in Audacity's Recording Preferences (which also affects playback) is too high for many USB or firewire devices. There may be immediate clicky playback of good audio and more rarely, recordings may be corrupted with clicks after a period of time. Set Audio to buffer as low as you can consistent with still getting a good recording, or use the built-in output or input instead. Also see: How can I prevent clicky recordings on Mac OS X?.

Just an observation - This may be misleading in referring to corrupted recordings being solved by using Built-In Input. I used to have issues in 2.1.0 with using Built-in Input. Reducing the buffer solved the problem. I haven't tried this lately as I can't afford to have a bad recording and it was a very hit and miss issue so proving it is now ok is very difficult. It never happened except with a live recording which is the problem.

Cliff

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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Bill Wharrie

On 2017/02/20, at 8:52 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

 I was reading the release notes and noticed these items. Since this is an RC then I assumed that the Manual is the latest version. Looking at the Help folders in Applications I see that they are dated Feb. 8th so apparently they are not up to date. Looking at what I think is the latest online prerelease version I see the same issues. If there is another location with really current wording then please point me to it and ignore the following.


- In the Effects and Analysis section:
  •  (Windows) Very rarely, Audacity 2.1.2 may show no built-in effects, generators or analyzers after upgrading from an earlier Audacity 2.1.x version. If this happens, open Effect > Add / Remove Plug-ins..., enable the built-in effects if not already showing as enabled, then click OK.
Do you really mean 2.1.2?

- I don't understand this statement under Imports/Exports:

 (OS X) iTunes files cannot be opened from Media > Music in Audacity's file open dialogs. You could drag your iTunes "Music" folder to the Finder sidebar to give quicker access in Audacity open dialogs. 

Is it saying I can't open files in the iTunes folders with the File/Open dialog? Surely not as that isn't a problem at all as the next statement in line indicates. I must be getting dense, but this statement doesn't make sense to me. iTunes Media folder just contains folders so of course one can't open a file there, but if I open a folder then I can open the files in that folder.

I think the note refers to this:
Do File > Import Audio.
In the file-open dialog, select your “Music” folder under the “Media” heading in the sidebar of the dialog.
You will get the “media browser” version of the dialog.
I can open files from the media browser version of the dialog with Audacity 2.1.3 and OS X 10.11.4, so it appears this note can go.

— Bill


- Under Installation:

(Windows and OS X) On a first installation of Audacity, Save Project and Export default to saving in the Audacity installation folder. You will not be able to save or export there without sufficient permissions or authentication. Please change the save or export directory to a folder where you have full write permissions.

This isn't true anymore.

- Under Playback/Recording

(Mac OS X) The default 100 ms "Audio to buffer" setting in Audacity's Recording Preferences (which also affects playback) is too high for many USB or firewire devices. There may be immediate clicky playback of good audio and more rarely, recordings may be corrupted with clicks after a period of time. Set Audio to buffer as low as you can consistent with still getting a good recording, or use the built-in output or input instead. Also see: How can I prevent clicky recordings on Mac OS X?.

Just an observation - This may be misleading in referring to corrupted recordings being solved by using Built-In Input. I used to have issues in 2.1.0 with using Built-in Input. Reducing the buffer solved the problem. I haven't tried this lately as I can't afford to have a bad recording and it was a very hit and miss issue so proving it is now ok is very difficult. It never happened except with a live recording which is the problem.

Cliff
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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by James Crook
On 20 February 2017 at 19:30, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I've posted signed RC2's for windows installer, windows zip and mac dmg at:
>
> https://www.fosshub.com/Audacity-devel.html
>
> I think I am now ONLY deleting .DS_Store files, and directories, in
> doing a CleanDir.  If I've got that change wrong, Gale will see 1567
> much much worse than for RC1, and we'd do a respin to RC3. So that is
> the first thing we need to know.

Summary: Sierra 10.12.3. 1567 is the same as with RC1 and not worse.

So I see in RC2, as in RC1, that if I

launch Audacity
create audio somehow
new project
create audio somehow

then Save Project or Save Project As in either unsaved project, the
project* folder in SessionData that belonged to the project now saved
is removed, even if it contained .DS_Store files. This is good, and 1567
doesn't occur after saving the project.

So I'm still left on my machine with the one understood 1567 trigger
that we don't address yet:

launch Audacity
create audio somehow
new project
create audio somehow

then Close on either unsaved project and don't save. This leaves behind
the project* folder in SessionData.for the closed project and lets the
deleted .DS_Store files be recreated in that folder. If I don't open the
second new project, the close without save removes the only project*
folder and 1567 doesn't happen.

Of course, when we save a project the first time, any files or folders
the user added to the project* folder will be deleted with the project*
folder deletion, so I assume James, your "ONLY" above means leave
other already saved projects in the session alone?

Does CleanDir happen when you open a saved project, edit it, then
save the project? I have not done file monitoring to double check, but
it looks to me that we don't clean up the .DS_Store files in that
project's _data folder at save. If so, although it's not a known 1567
trigger, I wonder if we should do that cleanup in case such a scenario
triggers on someone else's machine?

And I also wonder if we should clean up .DS_Store files in the top
level of SessionData when exiting Audacity (and check for and remove
them immediately after creating that folder on launch)? There could be
some chance this might obviate the need for fork and crash on launch.

I see James's comment in
https://github.com/audacity/audacity/commit/89c44f9

about project* folders being deleted if they are nothing to do with
Audacity. I think that could be a P4. An edge case where it might
be hard to prevent deletion may be if some user put a backup of a
crashed project's temp data there.


> Also a check that I have signed correctly.  I think I have, as I did
> the same steps as for RC1.

I think so. The "damaged" problem I get on my Sierra machine when
different users run and install Audacity is no worse than before.



Gale



> If it is still looking OK tomorrow I'll do the linux tarball too.
>
> --James.

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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by Cliff Scott
Hi Cliff,

The Manual in RC2 has the latest intended changes. The Manual did
not change between RC1 being posted and now.

The draft 2.1.3 Release Notes are now at least two months old. They
will have to be pulled in from Bugzilla again close to when we actually
release 2.1.3.

See below.

On 21 February 2017 at 01:52, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  I was reading the release notes and noticed these items. Since this is an
> RC then I assumed that the Manual is the latest version. Looking at the Help
> folders in Applications I see that they are dated Feb. 8th so apparently
> they are not up to date. Looking at what I think is the latest online
> prerelease version I see the same issues. If there is another location with
> really current wording then please point me to it and ignore the following.
>
> http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Notes_2.1.3#Improvements
>
> - In the Effects and Analysis section:
>
>  (Windows) Very rarely, Audacity 2.1.2 may show no built-in effects,
> generators or analyzers after upgrading from an earlier Audacity 2.1.x
> version. If this happens, open Effect > Add / Remove Plug-ins..., enable the
> built-in effects if not already showing as enabled, then click OK.
>
> Do you really mean 2.1.2?

See: http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1287 .

I meant 2.1.2 at the time of 2.1.2, but I removed the "2.1.2" now from the
note.

This may or may not be another symptom of plugins not getting enabled if
pluginregistry.cfg gets corrupted.


> - I don't understand this statement under Imports/Exports:
>
>  (OS X) iTunes files cannot be opened from Media > Music in Audacity's file
> open dialogs. You could drag your iTunes "Music" folder to the Finder
> sidebar to give quicker access in Audacity open dialogs.
>
> Is it saying I can't open files in the iTunes folders with the File/Open
> dialog? Surely not as that isn't a problem at all as the next statement in
> line indicates. I must be getting dense, but this statement doesn't make
> sense to me. iTunes Media folder just contains folders so of course one
> can't open a file there, but if I open a folder then I can open the files in
> that folder.

Bill has explained it, but the steps to reproduce are here:
http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1167  .

I see it happen in 2.1.2 on Sierra and Yosemite but not in 2.1.3. I don't
know what could have fixed it. I'll try it on Snow Leopard and Lion in
those Audacity versions before closing it.


> - Under Installation:
>
> (Windows and OS X) On a first installation of Audacity, Save Project and
> Export default to saving in the Audacity installation folder. You will not
> be able to save or export there without sufficient permissions or
> authentication. Please change the save or export directory to a folder where
> you have full write permissions.
>
> This isn't true anymore.

Because the list is outdated by two months.


> - Under Playback/Recording
>
> (Mac OS X) The default 100 ms "Audio to buffer" setting in Audacity's
> Recording Preferences (which also affects playback) is too high for many USB
> or firewire devices. There may be immediate clicky playback of good audio
> and more rarely, recordings may be corrupted with clicks after a period of
> time. Set Audio to buffer as low as you can consistent with still getting a
> good recording, or use the built-in output or input instead. Also see: How
> can I prevent clicky recordings on Mac OS X?.
>
> Just an observation - This may be misleading in referring to corrupted
> recordings being solved by using Built-In Input. I used to have issues in
> 2.1.0 with using Built-in Input. Reducing the buffer solved the problem. I
> haven't tried this lately as I can't afford to have a bad recording and it
> was a very hit and miss issue so proving it is now ok is very difficult. It
> never happened except with a live recording which is the problem.

I now changed it to "especially for many USB or firewire devices or if
using Soundflower."

There are very few reports for built-in devices, unless using Soundflower.

Thanks for the comments.


Gale

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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Cliff Scott
In reply to this post by Bill Wharrie

On Feb 20, 2017, at 8:49 PM, Bill Wharrie <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 2017/02/20, at 8:52 PM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

 I was reading the release notes and noticed these items. Since this is an RC then I assumed that the Manual is the latest version. Looking at the Help folders in Applications I see that they are dated Feb. 8th so apparently they are not up to date. Looking at what I think is the latest online prerelease version I see the same issues. If there is another location with really current wording then please point me to it and ignore the following.


- In the Effects and Analysis section:
  •  (Windows) Very rarely, Audacity 2.1.2 may show no built-in effects, generators or analyzers after upgrading from an earlier Audacity 2.1.x version. If this happens, open Effect > Add / Remove Plug-ins..., enable the built-in effects if not already showing as enabled, then click OK.
Do you really mean 2.1.2?

- I don't understand this statement under Imports/Exports:

 (OS X) iTunes files cannot be opened from Media > Music in Audacity's file open dialogs. You could drag your iTunes "Music" folder to the Finder sidebar to give quicker access in Audacity open dialogs. 

Is it saying I can't open files in the iTunes folders with the File/Open dialog? Surely not as that isn't a problem at all as the next statement in line indicates. I must be getting dense, but this statement doesn't make sense to me. iTunes Media folder just contains folders so of course one can't open a file there, but if I open a folder then I can open the files in that folder.

I think the note refers to this:
Do File > Import Audio.
In the file-open dialog, select your “Music” folder under the “Media” heading in the sidebar of the dialog.
You will get the “media browser” version of the dialog.
I can open files from the media browser version of the dialog with Audacity 2.1.3 and OS X 10.11.4, so it appears this note can go.

— Bill

Ok. I see what you mean. Boy from the description in the release note one would never guess what it is about. I don't normally have the sidebar open so would never see it. Works fine here as well.

Cliff



- Under Installation:

(Windows and OS X) On a first installation of Audacity, Save Project and Export default to saving in the Audacity installation folder. You will not be able to save or export there without sufficient permissions or authentication. Please change the save or export directory to a folder where you have full write permissions.

This isn't true anymore.

- Under Playback/Recording

(Mac OS X) The default 100 ms "Audio to buffer" setting in Audacity's Recording Preferences (which also affects playback) is too high for many USB or firewire devices. There may be immediate clicky playback of good audio and more rarely, recordings may be corrupted with clicks after a period of time. Set Audio to buffer as low as you can consistent with still getting a good recording, or use the built-in output or input instead. Also see: How can I prevent clicky recordings on Mac OS X?.

Just an observation - This may be misleading in referring to corrupted recordings being solved by using Built-In Input. I used to have issues in 2.1.0 with using Built-in Input. Reducing the buffer solved the problem. I haven't tried this lately as I can't afford to have a bad recording and it was a very hit and miss issue so proving it is now ok is very difficult. It never happened except with a live recording which is the problem.

Cliff
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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

James Crook
In reply to this post by Gale
Gale wrote:
> Summary: Sierra 10.12.3. 1567 is the same as with RC1 and not worse.
Thanks for coming back quickly with that Gale.  That's was my key
worry/concern for RC2, and means that now further testing and actual use
of RC2 by other members of test team is worthwhile.

 From reports from others, signing is 'not worse' than RC1 either,
manual is the same, and I think fixing the BOM and the
mac-drag-folder-to-install text issues more than offset the
ResetPrefs.txt being left around.

So, so far RC2 is not worse than RC1 and if nothing new crops up between
now and then my intention is to release on Monday 27th.

I'll respond to other points inline for completeness....

--James.


On 2/21/2017 2:59 AM, Gale Andrews wrote:

> Summary: Sierra 10.12.3. 1567 is the same as with RC1 and not worse.
> So I see in RC2, as in RC1, that if I
>
> launch Audacity
> create audio somehow
> new project
> create audio somehow
>
> then Save Project or Save Project As in either unsaved project, the
> project* folder in SessionData that belonged to the project now saved
> is removed, even if it contained .DS_Store files. This is good, and 1567
> doesn't occur after saving the project.
>
> So I'm still left on my machine with the one understood 1567 trigger
> that we don't address yet:
>
> launch Audacity
> create audio somehow
> new project
> create audio somehow
>
> then Close on either unsaved project and don't save. This leaves behind
> the project* folder in SessionData.for the closed project and lets the
> deleted .DS_Store files be recreated in that folder. If I don't open the
> second new project, the close without save removes the only project*
> folder and 1567 doesn't happen.
I think that offers a real possibility of fixing that case too, in
2.2.0.  The bug will be something like that too much time elapses
between .DS_Store cleaning and removing the empty directories.  It
suggests that the 1567 bug might also be tickled by a single large
project.  E.g open Audacity, import (copied) a 4hr wav file, and close
without saving.  The .DS_Store files might get recreated by macOS
between their deletion and the removal of the empty directories.  
[Testing large project scenario low priority for 2.1.3 release, in my
view, it's mainly of interest wrt to 2.2.0]
> Of course, when we save a project the first time, any files or folders
> the user added to the project* folder will be deleted with the project*
> folder deletion, so I assume James, your "ONLY" above means leave
> other already saved projects in the session alone?
Not quite what I meant.
Previously on close, Audacity removed all audio files from the
directories, then CleanDir code removed all files that were in those
directories, then it removed the directories.
Now on close, Audacity removes all audio files from the directories,
then CleanDir code removed all .DS_Store files that were in those
directories, then it removed the directories.

If you put RogueFile.txt into a project* folder, removing the
directories might fail for them being non-empty (i.e. having
RogueFile.txt in them).  It depends on how mac treats remove directory.


> Does CleanDir happen when you open a saved project, edit it, then
> save the project? I have not done file monitoring to double check, but
> it looks to me that we don't clean up the .DS_Store files in that
> project's _data folder at save. If so, although it's not a known 1567
> trigger, I wonder if we should do that cleanup in case such a scenario
> triggers on someone else's machine?
CleanDir IS called, but to clean out the Audacity temp directory
(SessionData), which is already empty.

I think the .DS_Store files in the project which is being kept are not a
problem at all.  The problem is related to gatekeeper, and deleting
'empty' directories under the temp directory.  It's the directories not
being empty that (probably) caused the problem.  If you are not deleting
them, then (probably) no problem.

> And I also wonder if we should clean up .DS_Store files in the top
> level of SessionData when exiting Audacity (and check for and remove
> them immediately after creating that folder on launch)? There could be
> some chance this might obviate the need for fork and crash on launch.
We do that when exiting Audacity.

> I see James's comment in
> https://github.com/audacity/audacity/commit/89c44f9
>
> about project* folders being deleted if they are nothing to do with
> Audacity. I think that could be a P4. An edge case where it might
> be hard to prevent deletion may be if some user put a backup of a
> crashed project's temp data there.
Yep.  Edge case I think.  That would also be an old long standing bug,
wouldn't it?


--James.


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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

James Crook
In reply to this post by Gale
On 2/20/2017 11:28 PM, Gale Andrews wrote:

> I don't know how to test signing on Windows. I got an unsigned warning
> for RC1 on Windows XP SP3, but Peter did not. And I get SmartScreen
> warnings for RC1 on Windows 10 but no-one else does.
>
> I had thought that codesigning would stop SmartScreen appearing but it
> seems from:
> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ie/2012/08/14/microsoft-smartscreen-extended-validation-ev-code-signing-certificates/
>
> and
>
> https://blog.digicert.com/ms-smartscreen-application-reputation/
>
> that codesigning just builds reputation faster, and Extended Validation (EV)
> certificates fastest of all. Right?
Signing with an official cert as I have done means you don't get the
'unknown developer' warning.  The exe signing will expire in Nov 2017 (I
deliberately did not use timestamping to extend it).  If code turns out
to be malware, the cert for the signer will be revoked when it is known,
so (a) users will get a more dire warning, and (b) therefore it makes it
easier for AV to trust the exes.

EV is (I think) essential for drivers.  I think that is its main advantage.

>   Is ours an EV certificate?
No.  Just an identity/codesigning cert.

--James.


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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Peter Sampson-2
Testing RC3 on XP (while I'm waiting for RC3 procesing grind on my w10 engine)

1) Installed RC3 over RC2 using the .exe - installed fine and launched fine.
No unsigned warning message appeared.


2) The new ...\Documents\Audacity in use on XP leads to an additional \Documents
folder being created alongside the traditional XP folder \My Documents.
So this led to a little user confusion as I struggled to finf where Audacity had Saved
my project - only a flaw-ette I'm thinking, very minor.

It does mean the user has to "discover" the pathing:
C:\Documents and Settings\user\Documents\Audacity
Rather than the simpler and more obvious "My Documents"


3)  Tested the Save As with 3 versions of the project.  No project files deleted on second
and third Save As - and all three projects open successfully and completly.


4)  All else seems to look good with RC3 on XP

Peter.

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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Peter Sampson-2
Testing 2.1.3 RC3 on W10 laptop

1) Installed fine with the .exe and launched ok
I did have to permission it to procedd past an installation warning.


2) Used the opportunity of my regular unattended 2-hour webstream recording
to give it a thorough run through of my normal workflow.  All ran fine


3) One thing I did note is that with RC3 2.1.3 I no longer seem to get a ske/click
terminating the recording.  THis click is something that I have observed for a very
long time and thought little about - it's just that we happened to be discussing it
recently on the Forum.


4) I tried the 3 x Save As - no files deleted, no data loss, all three projects open
successfully and completely.


5) The (end-of-life) Edirol UA-1EX works fine (using Microsoft standard USB drivers)
but still acts differently on USB3 compared to USB2:
a) on USB3 it is avialble as input device (using all 3 hosts) - but not output
b) on USB2 it is available (only under WASAPi)  as output with input limited to (loopback).


So far RC3 looking good on W10 for me.

Peter

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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Stevethefiddle
In reply to this post by James Crook
On 21 February 2017 at 10:10, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/20/2017 11:28 PM, Gale Andrews wrote:
>> I don't know how to test signing on Windows. I got an unsigned warning
>> for RC1 on Windows XP SP3, but Peter did not. And I get SmartScreen
>> warnings for RC1 on Windows 10 but no-one else does.
>>
>> I had thought that codesigning would stop SmartScreen appearing but it
>> seems from:
>> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ie/2012/08/14/microsoft-smartscreen-extended-validation-ev-code-signing-certificates/
>>
>> and
>>
>> https://blog.digicert.com/ms-smartscreen-application-reputation/
>>
>> that codesigning just builds reputation faster, and Extended Validation (EV)
>> certificates fastest of all. Right?
> Signing with an official cert as I have done means you don't get the
> 'unknown developer' warning.  The exe signing will expire in Nov 2017 (I
> deliberately did not use timestamping to extend it).  If code turns out
> to be malware, the cert for the signer will be revoked when it is known,
> so (a) users will get a more dire warning, and (b) therefore it makes it
> easier for AV to trust the exes.
>
> EV is (I think) essential for drivers.  I think that is its main advantage.

Leland was looking into this recently re a possible solution to ASIO
support. For Windows 10, drivers MUST be signed with an EV cert
("Extended Validation Certificate") from an authority approved by
Microsoft. Unfortunately there are currently very few approved
authorities, Symantec currently charge $2000 for 3 years, and Digicert
 charge about $1000. Comodo don't appear to do EV code signing certs
yet, but we can hope they will enter this market soon.

Steve

>
>>   Is ours an EV certificate?
> No.  Just an identity/codesigning cert.
>
> --James.
>
>
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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Peter Sampson-2
In reply to this post by Peter Sampson-2
One thing I did note when testing on RC2 (tested also on RC! and got the same) is:

6) Different behavior with David's new shortcusts conflicting with a couple of my sustom shortcuts.

6a) Previously I had reported behaviour which showed that running with a clean default set of
shortcuts and then restoring my saved audacity.cfg led to a situation where I got (unreported)
duplicate shortcust with David's new ones taking precedence over my custom ones.

6b) with RC2 (and RC1) this gas changed such that I now only get my custom shortcuts, no
duplicates and no presence of David's shortcuts.

Now while I personally find the RC2 6b) behaviour much preferrable as I don't have to bother
deleting David's shortcuts to enable my custom ones to work - it means for most normal users
in the situation they would be blissfully unaware of David's new shortcuts (unless thay carefully
read the Reallease Notes or Manual>What's New in this release page.



Aside: This is one of the key reasons why I wrote the following proposal a while back for a set of
shortcuts to be set aside for users' custom usage:
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Proposal:_Reserved_keys_for_custom_key_bindings
This proposal was discussed, but ran aground into the long grass.  I do feel taht it has some value
not least to help avoid such conflicts as described in this use cas but also to make it easier for
users to find non-used key combinations for their custom shortcuts (we would publish the list
of availabele reserved custom bindings in the Manual).

Cheers,
Peter


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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Peter Sampson-2
Testing RC3 on Macbook Pro Sierra 10.12.3

1)  Installed fine over RC1 using the DMG

2) Like the improved "Drag the Audacity.app icon ..." Installation dialog

3) I did have to permission the first opening

4) all effects and both libraries present and correct and remain so after closing
projects without saving).

Looking good so far on Mac/Sierra

I know that you (James) said big project testing was a low priority for 2.1.3, but
I plan to exercise the Mac later today with a big project of say four hours.

Peter

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Re: RC2 for windows and mac.

Peter Sampson-2
I created a four hour project on RC2  the Mac by:
a) copying over my 2-hout Timed Recording project from yesterday
b) duplicating the 2 hours and Time shift - and mix&render
c) played fine all effects present and worked
d) Exported a 4 hour wav
e) closed Audacity
f) relaunched Audacity and gdragged in the 4 hour WAV file
g) Closed without saving
h) relaunched Audacity

At all stages all effects and both libraries all present and correct.

Peter.



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