Strange behaviour of Window menu on Mac

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Strange behaviour of Window menu on Mac

Stevethefiddle
1) Window menu > Minimize (or Command + M)
2) Generate something from the Generate menu, or if the project has
audio apply an effect.

The Audacity window appears to restore and the effect (or generator) is applied.

3)  Space to play - nothing happens
3) Transport > Play/Stop - Error opening sound device
3) Click the Play button - nothing happens
3) Click on the waveform - nothing happens
...

Go to the Window menu - Minimize and Zoom are greyed out. It seems
that Audacity thinks it is still minimised.

4) Window menu > Bring all to front
The Audacity window disappears and re-emerges from the dock.

I'm not sure what "should" happen, but I'd expect either most of the
menus would be greyed out after minimizing, or that  applying an
effect / generating would properly  restore the Audacity window.

Steve

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Re: Strange behaviour of Window menu on Mac

Stevethefiddle
So is this a "bug" or just Mac weirdness?

Steve

On 16 January 2017 at 20:34, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1) Window menu > Minimize (or Command + M)
> 2) Generate something from the Generate menu, or if the project has
> audio apply an effect.
>
> The Audacity window appears to restore and the effect (or generator) is applied.
>
> 3)  Space to play - nothing happens
> 3) Transport > Play/Stop - Error opening sound device
> 3) Click the Play button - nothing happens
> 3) Click on the waveform - nothing happens
> ...
>
> Go to the Window menu - Minimize and Zoom are greyed out. It seems
> that Audacity thinks it is still minimised.
>
> 4) Window menu > Bring all to front
> The Audacity window disappears and re-emerges from the dock.
>
> I'm not sure what "should" happen, but I'd expect either most of the
> menus would be greyed out after minimizing, or that  applying an
> effect / generating would properly  restore the Audacity window.
>
> Steve

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Re: Strange behaviour of Window menu on Mac

Cliff Scott
To me it looks as if it the Mac still thinks it is minimized since you can't get it to be focused. Somehow it is displayed without some necessary flag set that this is a real window. Kind of like when you have a preference window open it will not let other windows for that app to come into focus. Audacity acts like it is one of those windows that is locked out of focus until something finishes.

IMHO, which ever it is it shouldn't be that way. What it'll take to change it I don't know, but from other things that have been fixed for the Mac I suspect it is fixable. It does seem like a fringe case though. Most of us won't be trying to do some operation with the window minimized.

Cliff

> On Jan 18, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So is this a "bug" or just Mac weirdness?
>
> Steve
>
> On 16 January 2017 at 20:34, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 1) Window menu > Minimize (or Command + M)
>> 2) Generate something from the Generate menu, or if the project has
>> audio apply an effect.
>>
>> The Audacity window appears to restore and the effect (or generator) is applied.
>>
>> 3)  Space to play - nothing happens
>> 3) Transport > Play/Stop - Error opening sound device
>> 3) Click the Play button - nothing happens
>> 3) Click on the waveform - nothing happens
>> ...
>>
>> Go to the Window menu - Minimize and Zoom are greyed out. It seems
>> that Audacity thinks it is still minimised.
>>
>> 4) Window menu > Bring all to front
>> The Audacity window disappears and re-emerges from the dock.
>>
>> I'm not sure what "should" happen, but I'd expect either most of the
>> menus would be greyed out after minimizing, or that  applying an
>> effect / generating would properly  restore the Audacity window.
>>
>> Steve
>
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Re: Strange behaviour of Window menu on Mac

Gale
Administrator
In 2.1.1 where the Window menu was complete (including an entry in the
Window menu for each minimised window), Effect or Generate would show
the window for the effect or generator but on closing that window, Audacity
did not unminimise and show the current project window.

It has to be called a bug (P3?) that you can restore a non-focused window
without it really being unminimised.  I agree with Cliff that most users would
not try to do things while Audacity is minimised.

I don't see consistency in how Apple apps hand this. If you minimise Safari,
most menu items are available. So if you use the menu bar to open a new
tab or open a bookmark, the current project window unminimises.

If you minimise GarageBand, almost all the menu items are greyed out,
even for Save.

I prefer the more user-friendly Safari approach. An action should unminimise
the project window if it makes sense, such as Effect, Import, Export or
Screenshot Tools (which currently opens with greyed out controls). Save
Project already does unminimise Audacity.

Opening and closing Preferences should not unminimise Audacity, as in
GarageBand.

But either approach is reasonable. What 2.1.1 did was not correct, but better
than what we have now.



Gale


On 18 January 2017 at 15:19, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

> To me it looks as if it the Mac still thinks it is minimized since you can't get it to be focused. Somehow it is displayed without some necessary flag set that this is a real window. Kind of like when you have a preference window open it will not let other windows for that app to come into focus. Audacity acts like it is one of those windows that is locked out of focus until something finishes.
>
> IMHO, which ever it is it shouldn't be that way. What it'll take to change it I don't know, but from other things that have been fixed for the Mac I suspect it is fixable. It does seem like a fringe case though. Most of us won't be trying to do some operation with the window minimized.
>
> Cliff
>
>> On Jan 18, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So is this a "bug" or just Mac weirdness?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 16 January 2017 at 20:34, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> 1) Window menu > Minimize (or Command + M)
>>> 2) Generate something from the Generate menu, or if the project has
>>> audio apply an effect.
>>>
>>> The Audacity window appears to restore and the effect (or generator) is applied.
>>>
>>> 3)  Space to play - nothing happens
>>> 3) Transport > Play/Stop - Error opening sound device
>>> 3) Click the Play button - nothing happens
>>> 3) Click on the waveform - nothing happens
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Go to the Window menu - Minimize and Zoom are greyed out. It seems
>>> that Audacity thinks it is still minimised.
>>>
>>> 4) Window menu > Bring all to front
>>> The Audacity window disappears and re-emerges from the dock.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what "should" happen, but I'd expect either most of the
>>> menus would be greyed out after minimizing, or that  applying an
>>> effect / generating would properly  restore the Audacity window.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
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>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>
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Re: Strange behaviour of Window menu on Mac

Peter Sampson-2
In reply to this post by Cliff Scott
Steve wrote:
>1) Window menu > Minimize (or Command + M)
>2) Generate something from the Generate menu, or if the project has
>audio apply an effect.
>
>The Audacity window appears to restore and the effect (or generator) is applied.
>
>3)  Space to play - nothing happens
>3) Transport > Play/Stop - Error opening sound device
>3) Click the Play button - nothing happens
>3) Click on the waveform - nothing happens

At step 3:
a) Space Bar will start (and stop) audio
b) Transport Toolbar grayed out and inoperable
c) click on Timeline no Quickplay
d) click on Scrub Bar - no Scrubbing
e) click on the waveform - nothing happens
And no cursor relocation in c, d and e.

Nor can I reminimize the window
a) not with Cmd+M
b) or with the orange circle minus icon

And I can't close it with the Red X icon

Using Quit from the Toolbar pops up a second version of
the window which appears to be operable - in my case it was
Do you want to save - I clicked No and both windows disappeared.

Mac weirdness ??

Peter

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Re: Strange behaviour of Window menu on Mac

Peter Sampson-2
In reply to this post by Gale
Gale wrote:
>I prefer the more user-friendly Safari approach. An action should unminimise
>the project window if it makes sense, such as Effect, Import, Export or
>Screenshot Tools (which currently opens with greyed out controls). Save
>Project already does unminimise Audacity.

+1

This is a great case of *not* doing  "does what it says on the tin".

It looks as though it is unminimized so it jolly well should be properly
un-minmized and fully operable.


>I agree with Cliff that most users would not try to do things while Audacity
>is minimised.

I agree too - but given the Mac quirk of how they handle their menu bars that
can be present and operable when the app is minimized (I was surprised
somewhat to see that this worked when I followed Stev's steps) I see no problem
with properlyun-minimizing while the operation on the app is at least initialized. 
The user can always then re-minimize if required (with the operation continuing
invisibly).

Peter.


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Re: Strange behaviour of Window menu on Mac

Cliff Scott

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Gale wrote:
> >I prefer the more user-friendly Safari approach. An action should unminimise
> >the project window if it makes sense, such as Effect, Import, Export or
> >Screenshot Tools (which currently opens with greyed out controls). Save
> >Project already does unminimise Audacity.
>
> +1
>
> This is a great case of *not* doing  "does what it says on the tin".
>
> It looks as though it is unminimized so it jolly well should be properly
> un-minmized and fully operable.
>
>
> >I agree with Cliff that most users would not try to do things while Audacity
> >is minimised.
>
> I agree too - but given the Mac quirk of how they handle their menu bars that
> can be present and operable when the app is minimized (I was surprised
> somewhat to see that this worked when I followed Stev's steps) I see no problem
> with properlyun-minimizing while the operation on the app is at least initialized.  
> The user can always then re-minimize if required (with the operation continuing
> invisibly).
>
> Peter.

++1. Ideal solution IMHO.

Cliff


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Re: Strange behaviour of Window menu on Mac

Paul Licameli
I gave this a bit of study today.  I don't see exactly the strange behavior Steve reported, but more like what Peter reported.  I don't know if commit 0bc20269a771 by James made a difference.  I don't yet understand why James made that followup to 15aa84f10b91.

I find that when I am in the strange state, in which too many menu items are inactive, I can clear it with Command + Q and then Cancel.

Things are confusing to debug, but I think that with Steve's step 2, our project should be given an Active event, but it isn't, and still thinks it is inactive, which affects our logic for enabling menu items.

I suspect that more tinkering with wxWidgets sources may be needed.  I wonder if the events from macOs about change of "main" status as distinct from "key" need to be better tracked by the wxWidgets layer.  https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nswindow

Is this a big priority for 2.1.3?  Probably not.

PRL


On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Gale wrote:
> >I prefer the more user-friendly Safari approach. An action should unminimise
> >the project window if it makes sense, such as Effect, Import, Export or
> >Screenshot Tools (which currently opens with greyed out controls). Save
> >Project already does unminimise Audacity.
>
> +1
>
> This is a great case of *not* doing  "does what it says on the tin".
>
> It looks as though it is unminimized so it jolly well should be properly
> un-minmized and fully operable.
>
>
> >I agree with Cliff that most users would not try to do things while Audacity
> >is minimised.
>
> I agree too - but given the Mac quirk of how they handle their menu bars that
> can be present and operable when the app is minimized (I was surprised
> somewhat to see that this worked when I followed Stev's steps) I see no problem
> with properlyun-minimizing while the operation on the app is at least initialized.
> The user can always then re-minimize if required (with the operation continuing
> invisibly).
>
> Peter.

++1. Ideal solution IMHO.

Cliff


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Re: Strange behaviour of Window menu on Mac

Gale
Administrator
On 22 January 2017 at 17:30, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I gave this a bit of study today.  I don't see exactly the strange behavior
> Steve reported, but more like what Peter reported.  I don't know if commit
> 0bc20269a771 by James made a difference.  I don't yet understand why James
> made that followup to 15aa84f10b91.
>
> I find that when I am in the strange state, in which too many menu items are
> inactive, I can clear it with Command + Q and then Cancel.
>
> Things are confusing to debug, but I think that with Steve's step 2, our
> project should be given an Active event, but it isn't, and still thinks it
> is inactive, which affects our logic for enabling menu items.
>
> I suspect that more tinkering with wxWidgets sources may be needed.  I
> wonder if the events from macOs about change of "main" status as distinct
> from "key" need to be better tracked by the wxWidgets layer.
> https://developer.apple.com/reference/appkit/nswindow
>
> Is this a big priority for 2.1.3?  Probably not.

Thanks, Paul. I think we've agreed P3 so not even one for James
to consider.


Gale


> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Cliff Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 19, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Peter Sampson
>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Gale wrote:
>> > >I prefer the more user-friendly Safari approach. An action should
>> > > unminimise
>> > >the project window if it makes sense, such as Effect, Import, Export or
>> > >Screenshot Tools (which currently opens with greyed out controls). Save
>> > >Project already does unminimise Audacity.
>> >
>> > +1
>> >
>> > This is a great case of *not* doing  "does what it says on the tin".
>> >
>> > It looks as though it is unminimized so it jolly well should be properly
>> > un-minmized and fully operable.
>> >
>> >
>> > >I agree with Cliff that most users would not try to do things while
>> > > Audacity
>> > >is minimised.
>> >
>> > I agree too - but given the Mac quirk of how they handle their menu bars
>> > that
>> > can be present and operable when the app is minimized (I was surprised
>> > somewhat to see that this worked when I followed Stev's steps) I see no
>> > problem
>> > with properlyun-minimizing while the operation on the app is at least
>> > initialized.
>> > The user can always then re-minimize if required (with the operation
>> > continuing
>> > invisibly).
>> >
>> > Peter.
>>
>> ++1. Ideal solution IMHO.
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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