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Sync-Lock Tracks button

Peter Sampson-2
Now that James has intoduced a new sync-lock item itn the Tracks menu:
Tracks > Sync-Lock Tracks (on/off)

I would like to propose that we remove the Sync-Lock tracks button from the Edit menu.

My reasongs for this are:

a) Sync-Lock is not really an Edit command (otherwise we would have it in the Edit menu)
so for a start it is anomalous.

b) It will look even more anomalous if and when we get around to splitting the current Edit
Toolbar and creating the proposed new Zoom Toolbar - it will stand out like a sore thumb
then.

c) We've had many postings on the Forum over the years if folk who've accidentally nudged the
button "on" and then get confused about what's going on.

d) Conversely we get folk on the Forum who want their tracks locked in sync but don't know
how - so that visible button in the Edit Toolbar ends up not being "discoverable" for them.

e) I'm pretty sure that this is a setting that most folk either make or don't make - most of them
will not be toggling between the two modes frequently - so the loss of the immediately
accessible button should be no great loss.  And this low frequency use shoul help minimise the
impact on RSI suffering users.

f) This would not be a "regression" as we would not be removing functionality, merely changing
the GUI (Apple and Microsoft do that all the time).

I note that James did indeed remove the button in DarkAdacity (he also changed the nomenclature
in DA, but agreed to retain the existing name here in Audacity).

Who would object if James simply went ahead and removed that bytton from the Edit Menu?

Peter.

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Re: Sync-Lock Tracks button

Gale
Administrator
On 7 April 2017 at 15:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Now that James has intoduced a new sync-lock item itn the Tracks menu:
> Tracks > Sync-Lock Tracks (on/off)

That item isn't new, but I don't object to removing its button from Edit
Toolbar.


Gale

> I would like to propose that we remove the Sync-Lock tracks button from the
> Edit menu.
>
> My reasongs for this are:
>
> a) Sync-Lock is not really an Edit command (otherwise we would have it in
> the Edit menu)
> so for a start it is anomalous.
>
> b) It will look even more anomalous if and when we get around to splitting
> the current Edit
> Toolbar and creating the proposed new Zoom Toolbar - it will stand out like
> a sore thumb
> then.
>
> c) We've had many postings on the Forum over the years if folk who've
> accidentally nudged the
> button "on" and then get confused about what's going on.
>
> d) Conversely we get folk on the Forum who want their tracks locked in sync
> but don't know
> how - so that visible button in the Edit Toolbar ends up not being
> "discoverable" for them.
>
> e) I'm pretty sure that this is a setting that most folk either make or
> don't make - most of them
> will not be toggling between the two modes frequently - so the loss of the
> immediately
> accessible button should be no great loss.  And this low frequency use shoul
> help minimise the
> impact on RSI suffering users.
>
> f) This would not be a "regression" as we would not be removing
> functionality, merely changing
> the GUI (Apple and Microsoft do that all the time).
>
> I note that James did indeed remove the button in DarkAdacity (he also
> changed the nomenclature
> in DA, but agreed to retain the existing name here in Audacity).
>
> Who would object if James simply went ahead and removed that bytton from the
> Edit Menu?
>
> Peter.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>

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Re: Sync-Lock Tracks button

James Crook
On 4/7/2017 7:40 PM, Gale Andrews wrote:
> On 7 April 2017 at 15:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Now that James has intoduced a new sync-lock item itn the Tracks menu:
>> Tracks > Sync-Lock Tracks (on/off)
> That item isn't new, but I don't object to removing its button from Edit
> Toolbar.
On balance do you think it is a good thing to remove it?  I'm trying to
suss out if you agree with Peter's points (a) and (c)

Principles help me in making decisions, e.g. I'm now adopting a
principle of within reason trying to keep on/off options near the bottom
of menus.

Note: I finally removed the ergonomic transport buttons option recently
that we talked about off-list.


>
>
> Gale
>
>> I would like to propose that we remove the Sync-Lock tracks button from the
>> Edit menu.
>>
>> My reasongs for this are:
>>
>> a) Sync-Lock is not really an Edit command (otherwise we would have it in
>> the Edit menu)
>> so for a start it is anomalous.
>>
>> b) It will look even more anomalous if and when we get around to splitting
>> the current Edit
>> Toolbar and creating the proposed new Zoom Toolbar - it will stand out like
>> a sore thumb
>> then.
>>
>> c) We've had many postings on the Forum over the years if folk who've
>> accidentally nudged the
>> button "on" and then get confused about what's going on.
>>
>> d) Conversely we get folk on the Forum who want their tracks locked in sync
>> but don't know
>> how - so that visible button in the Edit Toolbar ends up not being
>> "discoverable" for them.
>>
>> e) I'm pretty sure that this is a setting that most folk either make or
>> don't make - most of them
>> will not be toggling between the two modes frequently - so the loss of the
>> immediately
>> accessible button should be no great loss.  And this low frequency use shoul
>> help minimise the
>> impact on RSI suffering users.
>>
>> f) This would not be a "regression" as we would not be removing
>> functionality, merely changing
>> the GUI (Apple and Microsoft do that all the time).
>>
>> I note that James did indeed remove the button in DarkAdacity (he also
>> changed the nomenclature
>> in DA, but agreed to retain the existing name here in Audacity).
>>
>> Who would object if James simply went ahead and removed that bytton from the
>> Edit Menu?
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>


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Re: Sync-Lock Tracks button

Gale
Administrator
On 7 April 2017 at 19:50, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 4/7/2017 7:40 PM, Gale Andrews wrote:
>> On 7 April 2017 at 15:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Now that James has intoduced a new sync-lock item itn the Tracks menu:
>>> Tracks > Sync-Lock Tracks (on/off)
>> That item isn't new, but I don't object to removing its button from Edit
>> Toolbar.
> On balance do you think it is a good thing to remove it?

+0.5

> I'm trying to suss out if you agree with Peter's points (a) and (c)

If the button is to be useful it should aid discoverability of the feature.
But where the button is now does not aid discoverability much and
I agree it does not really belong in Edit Toolbar.

I think people could also have enabled Sync-Lock Tracks accidentally
from the menu. Probably less chance of this now, with the checkbox
and lower position.

I would prefer to have the button "somewhere" but there is nowhere
else very convincing I see to put it. About the best I could think of
would be below the Pinned Head button (but that depends on
Scrub Ruler's presence) or to left of Pinned Head.

Or, consider if Sync-Lock is really a global state. If not, add to each
track some kind of Lock button. User enables that button on each
track they want to be synced. A number of users already imagine
before reading the docs that it actually should work that way.



Gale


> Principles help me in making decisions, e.g. I'm now adopting a
> principle of within reason trying to keep on/off options near the bottom
> of menus.
>
> Note: I finally removed the ergonomic transport buttons option recently
> that we talked about off-list.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>> I would like to propose that we remove the Sync-Lock tracks button from the
>>> Edit menu.
>>>
>>> My reasongs for this are:
>>>
>>> a) Sync-Lock is not really an Edit command (otherwise we would have it in
>>> the Edit menu)
>>> so for a start it is anomalous.
>>>
>>> b) It will look even more anomalous if and when we get around to splitting
>>> the current Edit
>>> Toolbar and creating the proposed new Zoom Toolbar - it will stand out like
>>> a sore thumb
>>> then.
>>>
>>> c) We've had many postings on the Forum over the years if folk who've
>>> accidentally nudged the
>>> button "on" and then get confused about what's going on.
>>>
>>> d) Conversely we get folk on the Forum who want their tracks locked in sync
>>> but don't know
>>> how - so that visible button in the Edit Toolbar ends up not being
>>> "discoverable" for them.
>>>
>>> e) I'm pretty sure that this is a setting that most folk either make or
>>> don't make - most of them
>>> will not be toggling between the two modes frequently - so the loss of the
>>> immediately
>>> accessible button should be no great loss.  And this low frequency use shoul
>>> help minimise the
>>> impact on RSI suffering users.
>>>
>>> f) This would not be a "regression" as we would not be removing
>>> functionality, merely changing
>>> the GUI (Apple and Microsoft do that all the time).
>>>
>>> I note that James did indeed remove the button in DarkAdacity (he also
>>> changed the nomenclature
>>> in DA, but agreed to retain the existing name here in Audacity).
>>>
>>> Who would object if James simply went ahead and removed that bytton from the
>>> Edit Menu?
>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality

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Re: Sync-Lock Tracks button

James Crook
On 4/7/2017 8:38 PM, Gale Andrews wrote:
> On 7 April 2017 at 19:50, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 4/7/2017 7:40 PM, Gale Andrews wrote:
>>> On 7 April 2017 at 15:32, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Now that James has intoduced a new sync-lock item itn the Tracks menu:
>>>> Tracks > Sync-Lock Tracks (on/off)
>>> That item isn't new, but I don't object to removing its button from Edit
>>> Toolbar.
>> On balance do you think it is a good thing to remove it?
> +0.5
Done.
https://github.com/audacity/audacity/commit/ae95bc6cce77d753aea5380684bfc656733ef79c

>> I'm trying to suss out if you agree with Peter's points (a) and (c)
> If the button is to be useful it should aid discoverability of the feature.
> But where the button is now does not aid discoverability much and
> I agree it does not really belong in Edit Toolbar.
>
> I think people could also have enabled Sync-Lock Tracks accidentally
> from the menu. Probably less chance of this now, with the checkbox
> and lower position.
>
> I would prefer to have the button "somewhere" but there is nowhere
> else very convincing I see to put it. About the best I could think of
> would be below the Pinned Head button (but that depends on
> Scrub Ruler's presence) or to left of Pinned Head.
Over on hub I've started a question to see if there is interest in a
toolbar for toggle buttons.
I'm thinking of that as a possible new place where it could live.

http://hub.audacityteam.org/index.php?qa=3&qa_1=should-we-have-a-toolbar-for-toggle-buttons

> Or, consider if Sync-Lock is really a global state. If not, add to each
> track some kind of Lock button. User enables that button on each
> track they want to be synced. A number of users already imagine
> before reading the docs that it actually should work that way.
Peter has mentioned that explaining in the manual how sync lock
currently works is tricky!


>
>
>
> Gale
>
>
>> Principles help me in making decisions, e.g. I'm now adopting a
>> principle of within reason trying to keep on/off options near the bottom
>> of menus.
>>
>> Note: I finally removed the ergonomic transport buttons option recently
>> that we talked about off-list.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Gale
>>>
>>>> I would like to propose that we remove the Sync-Lock tracks button from the
>>>> Edit menu.
>>>>
>>>> My reasongs for this are:
>>>>
>>>> a) Sync-Lock is not really an Edit command (otherwise we would have it in
>>>> the Edit menu)
>>>> so for a start it is anomalous.
>>>>
>>>> b) It will look even more anomalous if and when we get around to splitting
>>>> the current Edit
>>>> Toolbar and creating the proposed new Zoom Toolbar - it will stand out like
>>>> a sore thumb
>>>> then.
>>>>
>>>> c) We've had many postings on the Forum over the years if folk who've
>>>> accidentally nudged the
>>>> button "on" and then get confused about what's going on.
>>>>
>>>> d) Conversely we get folk on the Forum who want their tracks locked in sync
>>>> but don't know
>>>> how - so that visible button in the Edit Toolbar ends up not being
>>>> "discoverable" for them.
>>>>
>>>> e) I'm pretty sure that this is a setting that most folk either make or
>>>> don't make - most of them
>>>> will not be toggling between the two modes frequently - so the loss of the
>>>> immediately
>>>> accessible button should be no great loss.  And this low frequency use shoul
>>>> help minimise the
>>>> impact on RSI suffering users.
>>>>
>>>> f) This would not be a "regression" as we would not be removing
>>>> functionality, merely changing
>>>> the GUI (Apple and Microsoft do that all the time).
>>>>
>>>> I note that James did indeed remove the button in DarkAdacity (he also
>>>> changed the nomenclature
>>>> in DA, but agreed to retain the existing name here in Audacity).
>>>>
>>>> Who would object if James simply went ahead and removed that bytton from the
>>>> Edit Menu?
>>>>
>>>> Peter.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
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>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>


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