Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

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Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Peter Sampson-2
The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but horribly fuzzy and indistinct
when using light them.

I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme S-L icon
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
but I stayed my hand ...

It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's darn hard to discern
that it is a clock.

This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same in alpha cersions before
Steve's changes.

Peter.

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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Stevethefiddle
On 13 June 2017 at 16:49, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but horribly
> fuzzy and indistinct
> when using light them.
>
> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme S-L
> icon
> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
> but I stayed my hand ...
>
> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's darn
> hard to discern
> that it is a clock.

It just looks like a grey blob here.

Steve

>
> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same in
> alpha cersions before
> Steve's changes.
>
> Peter.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Gale
Administrator
It's just an indiscernible grey blob on Mac too. Also without a magnifying
glass I cannot personally tell the zoom in and zoom out button apart,
especially on Mac. I just see "something" inside the circle. Not a problem
for me with Dark or Classic Theme.




Gale


On 13 June 2017 at 17:05, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 13 June 2017 at 16:49, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but horribly
>> fuzzy and indistinct
>> when using light them.
>>
>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme S-L
>> icon
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>
>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's darn
>> hard to discern
>> that it is a clock.
>
> It just looks like a grey blob here.
>
> Steve
>
>>
>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same in
>> alpha cersions before
>> Steve's changes.
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Peter Sampson-2


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's just an indiscernible grey blob on Mac too.

I like this technical term "grey blob" though in ES English is should be "gray blob" ;-))


Also without a magnifying
glass I cannot personally tell the zoom in and zoom out button apart,
especially on Mac. I just see "something" inside the circle. Not a problem
for me with Dark or Classic Theme.

Fine for me on W10 on Light theme

Peter
 




Gale


On 13 June 2017 at 17:05, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 13 June 2017 at 16:49, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but horribly
>> fuzzy and indistinct
>> when using light them.
>>
>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme S-L
>> icon
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>
>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's darn
>> hard to discern
>> that it is a clock.
>
> It just looks like a grey blob here.
>
> Steve
>
>>
>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same in
>> alpha cersions before
>> Steve's changes.
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Peter Sampson-2


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 5:52 PM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's just an indiscernible grey blob on Mac too.

I like this technical term "grey blob" though in ES English is should be "gray blob" ;-))

OOPS - US English ...
 


Also without a magnifying
glass I cannot personally tell the zoom in and zoom out button apart,
especially on Mac. I just see "something" inside the circle. Not a problem
for me with Dark or Classic Theme.

Fine for me on W10 on Light theme

Peter
 




Gale


On 13 June 2017 at 17:05, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 13 June 2017 at 16:49, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but horribly
>> fuzzy and indistinct
>> when using light them.
>>
>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme S-L
>> icon
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>
>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's darn
>> hard to discern
>> that it is a clock.
>
> It just looks like a grey blob here.
>
> Steve
>
>>
>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same in
>> alpha cersions before
>> Steve's changes.
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Stevethefiddle
In reply to this post by Peter Sampson-2
On 13 June 2017 at 17:52, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It's just an indiscernible grey blob on Mac too.
>
>
> I like this technical term "grey blob" though in ES English is should be
> "gray blob" ;-))


grǽg blob ;-)

Steve

>
>
>> Also without a magnifying
>> glass I cannot personally tell the zoom in and zoom out button apart,
>> especially on Mac. I just see "something" inside the circle. Not a problem
>> for me with Dark or Classic Theme.
>
>
> Fine for me on W10 on Light theme
>
> Peter
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>> On 13 June 2017 at 17:05, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On 13 June 2017 at 16:49, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>> >> horribly
>> >> fuzzy and indistinct
>> >> when using light them.
>> >>
>> >> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>> >> S-L
>> >> icon
>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>> >> but I stayed my hand ...
>> >>
>> >> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>> >> darn
>> >> hard to discern
>> >> that it is a clock.
>> >
>> > It just looks like a grey blob here.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >>
>> >> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same
>> >> in
>> >> alpha cersions before
>> >> Steve's changes.
>> >>
>> >> Peter.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>> > Audacity-quality mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by Peter Sampson-2
On 13 June 2017 at 17:52, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It's just an indiscernible grey blob on Mac too.
>
>
> I like this technical term "grey blob" though in ES English is should be
> "gray blob" ;-))
>
>
>> Also without a magnifying
>> glass I cannot personally tell the zoom in and zoom out button apart,
>> especially on Mac. I just see "something" inside the circle. Not a problem
>> for me with Dark or Classic Theme.
>
>
> Fine for me on W10 on Light theme

I can see it just about acceptably on oversaturated laptop or netbook.

I prefer to see natural colours using an external monitor, so that is why
Light theme is out for me at present.


Gale


>> On 13 June 2017 at 17:05, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On 13 June 2017 at 16:49, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>> >> horribly
>> >> fuzzy and indistinct
>> >> when using light them.
>> >>
>> >> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>> >> S-L
>> >> icon
>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>> >> but I stayed my hand ...
>> >>
>> >> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>> >> darn
>> >> hard to discern
>> >> that it is a clock.
>> >
>> > It just looks like a grey blob here.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >>
>> >> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same
>> >> in
>> >> alpha cersions before
>> >> Steve's changes.
>> >>
>> >> Peter.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Paul Licameli
In reply to this post by Stevethefiddle


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 13 June 2017 at 17:52, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 5:41 PM, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> It's just an indiscernible grey blob on Mac too.
>
>
> I like this technical term "grey blob" though in ES English is should be
> "gray blob" ;-))


grǽg blob ;-)

Steve

Oh no, not the grey goo!

PRL

 

>
>
>> Also without a magnifying
>> glass I cannot personally tell the zoom in and zoom out button apart,
>> especially on Mac. I just see "something" inside the circle. Not a problem
>> for me with Dark or Classic Theme.
>
>
> Fine for me on W10 on Light theme
>
> Peter
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>> On 13 June 2017 at 17:05, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On 13 June 2017 at 16:49, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>> >> horribly
>> >> fuzzy and indistinct
>> >> when using light them.
>> >>
>> >> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>> >> S-L
>> >> icon
>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>> >> but I stayed my hand ...
>> >>
>> >> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>> >> darn
>> >> hard to discern
>> >> that it is a clock.
>> >
>> > It just looks like a grey blob here.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >>
>> >> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same
>> >> in
>> >> alpha cersions before
>> >> Steve's changes.
>> >>
>> >> Peter.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

James Crook
In reply to this post by Peter Sampson-2
But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with
the big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)

I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before
release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It
is redundant information.

Opinions?

2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items
from the sync-lock group.



Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light,
but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some
of the magnifying glass frame.

Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small
steps.  I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do
for wording, finding where we can systematic changes.

--James.


On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:

> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but horribly
> fuzzy and indistinct
> when using light them.
>
> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme S-L
> icon
> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
> but I stayed my hand ...
>
> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's darn
> hard to discern
> that it is a clock.
>
> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same in
> alpha cersions before
> Steve's changes.
>
> Peter.
>


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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Gale
Administrator
While the Sync-Lock icon still represents sync-lock selectedness
of a track, I think for continuity, it should continue to display
in the TCP.


Gale


On 13 June 2017 at 22:42, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:

> But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the
> big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)
>
> I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before
> release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
> OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is
> redundant information.
>
> Opinions?
>
> 2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from
> the sync-lock group.
>
>
>
> Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light, but
> perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of the
> magnifying glass frame.
>
> Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.  I
> think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for wording,
> finding where we can systematic changes.
>
> --James.
>
>
>
> On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>
>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>> horribly
>> fuzzy and indistinct
>> when using light them.
>>
>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>> S-L
>> icon
>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>
>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>> darn
>> hard to discern
>> that it is a clock.
>>
>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same in
>> alpha cersions before
>> Steve's changes.
>>
>> Peter.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Peter Sampson-2
In reply to this post by James Crook


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)

I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is redundant information.

Opinions?

Sorry, but it's nor redundant informatiom.

You only get the pattern in the selection when you have a selection.
 
With no selection active the gray-blob is the only visual cue to indicate
that you have turned on sync-locking - especially now that we have
removed the sync-lock buttonfrom the Edit Toolbar (where I agree it
did not belong.

And note if nothing is sele`cted and no cursor position is selected you
don't get the gray-blobs at all - it's only when you click a cursor position
in one of the  tracks that the gray-blobs appear.

Peter
 

2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from the sync-lock group.



Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light, but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of the magnifying glass frame.

Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.  I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for wording, finding where we can systematic changes.

--James.



On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but horribly
fuzzy and indistinct
when using light them.

I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme S-L
icon
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
but I stayed my hand ...

It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's darn
hard to discern
that it is a clock.

This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same in
alpha cersions before
Steve's changes.

Peter.



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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Stevethefiddle
On 14 June 2017 at 07:48, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the
>> big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)
>>
>> I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before
>> release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
>> OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is
>> redundant information.
>>
>> Opinions?
>
>
> Sorry, but it's nor redundant informatiom.
>
> You only get the pattern in the selection when you have a selection.

More specifically, only when you have a selection in one or more
tracks and not in others. If all, or none are selected, then that icon
is the only indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.

>
> With no selection active the gray-blob is the only visual cue to indicate
> that you have turned on sync-locking - especially now that we have
> removed the sync-lock buttonfrom the Edit Toolbar (where I agree it
> did not belong.
>
> And note if nothing is sele`cted and no cursor position is selected you
> don't get the gray-blobs at all - it's only when you click a cursor position
> in one of the  tracks that the gray-blobs appear.

I think that's a bug (not a regression over 2.1.3).

Say that Sinc-Lock was active last time you used Audacity, then...
1) Launch Audacity
2) Record a track.
3) Shift + R to record a second track
4) Change to the Time Shift tool
5) Slide the second track left/right to some alignment with the first track

In step 5, both tracks move together. There has been no visible
indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.

A grey blob does not really help much in the above scenario.

I've not yet looked at this part of the theme code, but I think, as
Peter implies, that this is more than a purely cosmetic change and if
possible it needs to be improved before release. If it requires more
than a reasonable amount of work to fix it, then perhaps we consider
using the Classic theme as the default? (Not ideal, but perhaps better
than now).

Steve

>
> Peter
>
>>
>>
>> 2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from
>> the sync-lock group.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light,
>> but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of
>> the magnifying glass frame.
>>
>> Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.
>> I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for
>> wording, finding where we can systematic changes.
>>
>> --James.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>>
>>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>>> horribly
>>> fuzzy and indistinct
>>> when using light them.
>>>
>>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>>> S-L
>>> icon
>>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>>
>>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>>> darn
>>> hard to discern
>>> that it is a clock.
>>>
>>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same
>>> in
>>> alpha cersions before
>>> Steve's changes.
>>>
>>> Peter.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>
>
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Gale
Administrator
On 14 June 2017 at 08:58, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14 June 2017 at 07:48, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the
>>> big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)
>>>
>>> I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before
>>> release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
>>> OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is
>>> redundant information.
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>
>>
>> Sorry, but it's nor redundant informatiom.
>>
>> You only get the pattern in the selection when you have a selection.
>
> More specifically, only when you have a selection in one or more
> tracks and not in others. If all, or none are selected, then that icon
> is the only indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>
>>
>> With no selection active the gray-blob is the only visual cue to indicate
>> that you have turned on sync-locking - especially now that we have
>> removed the sync-lock buttonfrom the Edit Toolbar (where I agree it
>> did not belong.
>>
>> And note if nothing is sele`cted and no cursor position is selected you
>> don't get the gray-blobs at all - it's only when you click a cursor position
>> in one of the  tracks that the gray-blobs appear.
>
> I think that's a bug (not a regression over 2.1.3).

Al Dimond refused to change this ever since he created Sync-Lock
Tracks, because the icon represents Sync-Lock-selectedness.
No tracks are selected. It's fine until you want to use Time Shift Tool.

I think it would be reasonable compromise for 2.2.0 for the Sync-Lock
icon to appear in the tracks when changing to Time Shift Tool and
no tracks are selected.


Gale

> Say that Sinc-Lock was active last time you used Audacity, then...
> 1) Launch Audacity
> 2) Record a track.
> 3) Shift + R to record a second track
> 4) Change to the Time Shift tool
> 5) Slide the second track left/right to some alignment with the first track
>
> In step 5, both tracks move together. There has been no visible
> indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>
> A grey blob does not really help much in the above scenario.
>
> I've not yet looked at this part of the theme code, but I think, as
> Peter implies, that this is more than a purely cosmetic change and if
> possible it needs to be improved before release. If it requires more
> than a reasonable amount of work to fix it, then perhaps we consider
> using the Classic theme as the default? (Not ideal, but perhaps better
> than now).
>
> Steve
>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from
>>> the sync-lock group.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light,
>>> but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of
>>> the magnifying glass frame.
>>>
>>> Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.
>>> I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for
>>> wording, finding where we can systematic changes.
>>>
>>> --James.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>>>> horribly
>>>> fuzzy and indistinct
>>>> when using light them.
>>>>
>>>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>>>> S-L
>>>> icon
>>>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>>>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>>>
>>>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>>>> darn
>>>> hard to discern
>>>> that it is a clock.
>>>>
>>>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same
>>>> in
>>>> alpha cersions before
>>>> Steve's changes.
>>>>
>>>> Peter.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Stevethefiddle
On 14 June 2017 at 14:21, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14 June 2017 at 08:58, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 14 June 2017 at 07:48, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the
>>>> big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)
>>>>
>>>> I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before
>>>> release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
>>>> OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is
>>>> redundant information.
>>>>
>>>> Opinions?
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, but it's nor redundant informatiom.
>>>
>>> You only get the pattern in the selection when you have a selection.
>>
>> More specifically, only when you have a selection in one or more
>> tracks and not in others. If all, or none are selected, then that icon
>> is the only indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>>
>>>
>>> With no selection active the gray-blob is the only visual cue to indicate
>>> that you have turned on sync-locking - especially now that we have
>>> removed the sync-lock buttonfrom the Edit Toolbar (where I agree it
>>> did not belong.
>>>
>>> And note if nothing is sele`cted and no cursor position is selected you
>>> don't get the gray-blobs at all - it's only when you click a cursor position
>>> in one of the  tracks that the gray-blobs appear.
>>
>> I think that's a bug (not a regression over 2.1.3).
>
> Al Dimond refused to change this ever since he created Sync-Lock
> Tracks, because the icon represents Sync-Lock-selectedness.

What exactly is "Sync-Lock-selectedness"?

"Selection" is still shown in the normal way, and "selected by virtue
of Sync-Lock" is shown by the presence of the background clocks. What
is not currently shown is if a track is "Sync-Locked" when all or none
of the tracks are selected. We really should try to avoid designs
where the behaviour is changed by unseen mysterious forces.

> No tracks are selected. It's fine until you want to use Time Shift Tool.
>
> I think it would be reasonable compromise for 2.2.0 for the Sync-Lock
> icon to appear in the tracks when changing to Time Shift Tool and
> no tracks are selected.

For 2.2.0 I'd settle for the icon looking like a clock rather than a
blob. That satisfies the "no worse than before" policy.

Steve

>
>
> Gale
>
>> Say that Sinc-Lock was active last time you used Audacity, then...
>> 1) Launch Audacity
>> 2) Record a track.
>> 3) Shift + R to record a second track
>> 4) Change to the Time Shift tool
>> 5) Slide the second track left/right to some alignment with the first track
>>
>> In step 5, both tracks move together. There has been no visible
>> indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>>
>> A grey blob does not really help much in the above scenario.
>>
>> I've not yet looked at this part of the theme code, but I think, as
>> Peter implies, that this is more than a purely cosmetic change and if
>> possible it needs to be improved before release. If it requires more
>> than a reasonable amount of work to fix it, then perhaps we consider
>> using the Classic theme as the default? (Not ideal, but perhaps better
>> than now).
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from
>>>> the sync-lock group.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light,
>>>> but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of
>>>> the magnifying glass frame.
>>>>
>>>> Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.
>>>> I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for
>>>> wording, finding where we can systematic changes.
>>>>
>>>> --James.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>>>>> horribly
>>>>> fuzzy and indistinct
>>>>> when using light them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>>>>> S-L
>>>>> icon
>>>>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>>>>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>>>>
>>>>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>>>>> darn
>>>>> hard to discern
>>>>> that it is a clock.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same
>>>>> in
>>>>> alpha cersions before
>>>>> Steve's changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

James Crook
On 6/14/2017 2:53 PM, Steve the Fiddle wrote:

> On 14 June 2017 at 14:21, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 14 June 2017 at 08:58, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On 14 June 2017 at 07:48, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the
>>>>> big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before
>>>>> release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
>>>>> OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is
>>>>> redundant information.
>>>>>
>>>>> Opinions?
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, but it's nor redundant informatiom.
>>>>
>>>> You only get the pattern in the selection when you have a selection.
>>> More specifically, only when you have a selection in one or more
>>> tracks and not in others. If all, or none are selected, then that icon
>>> is the only indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>>>
>>>> With no selection active the gray-blob is the only visual cue to indicate
>>>> that you have turned on sync-locking - especially now that we have
>>>> removed the sync-lock buttonfrom the Edit Toolbar (where I agree it
>>>> did not belong.
>>>>
>>>> And note if nothing is sele`cted and no cursor position is selected you
>>>> don't get the gray-blobs at all - it's only when you click a cursor position
>>>> in one of the  tracks that the gray-blobs appear.
>>> I think that's a bug (not a regression over 2.1.3).
>> Al Dimond refused to change this ever since he created Sync-Lock
>> Tracks, because the icon represents Sync-Lock-selectedness.
> What exactly is "Sync-Lock-selectedness"?
>
> "Selection" is still shown in the normal way, and "selected by virtue
> of Sync-Lock" is shown by the presence of the background clocks. What
> is not currently shown is if a track is "Sync-Locked" when all or none
> of the tracks are selected. We really should try to avoid designs
> where the behaviour is changed by unseen mysterious forces.
>
>> No tracks are selected. It's fine until you want to use Time Shift Tool.
>>
>> I think it would be reasonable compromise for 2.2.0 for the Sync-Lock
>> icon to appear in the tracks when changing to Time Shift Tool and
>> no tracks are selected.
> For 2.2.0 I'd settle for the icon looking like a clock rather than a
> blob. That satisfies the "no worse than before" policy.
+1
I've added a tweaks section right at the top of
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Bugs_In_DA_Integration
I'll get to the grey goo, in time for the half-term build.

--James.


>
> Steve
>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>> Say that Sinc-Lock was active last time you used Audacity, then...
>>> 1) Launch Audacity
>>> 2) Record a track.
>>> 3) Shift + R to record a second track
>>> 4) Change to the Time Shift tool
>>> 5) Slide the second track left/right to some alignment with the first track
>>>
>>> In step 5, both tracks move together. There has been no visible
>>> indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>>>
>>> A grey blob does not really help much in the above scenario.
>>>
>>> I've not yet looked at this part of the theme code, but I think, as
>>> Peter implies, that this is more than a purely cosmetic change and if
>>> possible it needs to be improved before release. If it requires more
>>> than a reasonable amount of work to fix it, then perhaps we consider
>>> using the Classic theme as the default? (Not ideal, but perhaps better
>>> than now).
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from
>>>>> the sync-lock group.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light,
>>>>> but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of
>>>>> the magnifying glass frame.
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.
>>>>> I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for
>>>>> wording, finding where we can systematic changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> --James.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>>>>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>>>>>> horribly
>>>>>> fuzzy and indistinct
>>>>>> when using light them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>>>>>> S-L
>>>>>> icon
>>>>>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>>>>>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>>>>>> darn
>>>>>> hard to discern
>>>>>> that it is a clock.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> alpha cersions before
>>>>>> Steve's changes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>
>


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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Gale
Administrator
In reply to this post by Stevethefiddle
On 14 June 2017 at 14:53, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14 June 2017 at 14:21, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 14 June 2017 at 08:58, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On 14 June 2017 at 07:48, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the
>>>>> big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before
>>>>> release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
>>>>> OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is
>>>>> redundant information.
>>>>>
>>>>> Opinions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, but it's nor redundant informatiom.
>>>>
>>>> You only get the pattern in the selection when you have a selection.
>>>
>>> More specifically, only when you have a selection in one or more
>>> tracks and not in others. If all, or none are selected, then that icon
>>> is the only indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> With no selection active the gray-blob is the only visual cue to indicate
>>>> that you have turned on sync-locking - especially now that we have
>>>> removed the sync-lock buttonfrom the Edit Toolbar (where I agree it
>>>> did not belong.
>>>>
>>>> And note if nothing is sele`cted and no cursor position is selected you
>>>> don't get the gray-blobs at all - it's only when you click a cursor position
>>>> in one of the  tracks that the gray-blobs appear.
>>>
>>> I think that's a bug (not a regression over 2.1.3).
>>
>> Al Dimond refused to change this ever since he created Sync-Lock
>> Tracks, because the icon represents Sync-Lock-selectedness.
>
> What exactly is "Sync-Lock-selectedness"?

It's a track selected only by reason of it being in a Sync-Locked Track
Group.


> "Selection" is still shown in the normal way, and "selected by virtue
> of Sync-Lock" is shown by the presence of the background clocks. What
> is not currently shown is if a track is "Sync-Locked" when all or none
> of the tracks are selected. We really should try to avoid designs
> where the behaviour is changed by unseen mysterious forces.
>
>> No tracks are selected. It's fine until you want to use Time Shift Tool.
>>
>> I think it would be reasonable compromise for 2.2.0 for the Sync-Lock
>> icon to appear in the tracks when changing to Time Shift Tool and
>> no tracks are selected.
>
> For 2.2.0 I'd settle for the icon looking like a clock rather than a
> blob. That satisfies the "no worse than before" policy.

We need to decide whether sync-lock icon in the track is only
an indicator of sync-lock selectedness, or is a button that changes
sync-locked state of that track.


Gale


>>> Say that Sinc-Lock was active last time you used Audacity, then...
>>> 1) Launch Audacity
>>> 2) Record a track.
>>> 3) Shift + R to record a second track
>>> 4) Change to the Time Shift tool
>>> 5) Slide the second track left/right to some alignment with the first track
>>>
>>> In step 5, both tracks move together. There has been no visible
>>> indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>>>
>>> A grey blob does not really help much in the above scenario.
>>>
>>> I've not yet looked at this part of the theme code, but I think, as
>>> Peter implies, that this is more than a purely cosmetic change and if
>>> possible it needs to be improved before release. If it requires more
>>> than a reasonable amount of work to fix it, then perhaps we consider
>>> using the Classic theme as the default? (Not ideal, but perhaps better
>>> than now).
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from
>>>>> the sync-lock group.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light,
>>>>> but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of
>>>>> the magnifying glass frame.
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.
>>>>> I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for
>>>>> wording, finding where we can systematic changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> --James.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>>>>>> horribly
>>>>>> fuzzy and indistinct
>>>>>> when using light them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>>>>>> S-L
>>>>>> icon
>>>>>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>>>>>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>>>>>> darn
>>>>>> hard to discern
>>>>>> that it is a clock.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> alpha cersions before
>>>>>> Steve's changes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Stevethefiddle
On 14 June 2017 at 16:54, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14 June 2017 at 14:53, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 14 June 2017 at 14:21, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On 14 June 2017 at 08:58, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On 14 June 2017 at 07:48, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the
>>>>>> big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before
>>>>>> release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
>>>>>> OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is
>>>>>> redundant information.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Opinions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, but it's nor redundant informatiom.
>>>>>
>>>>> You only get the pattern in the selection when you have a selection.
>>>>
>>>> More specifically, only when you have a selection in one or more
>>>> tracks and not in others. If all, or none are selected, then that icon
>>>> is the only indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With no selection active the gray-blob is the only visual cue to indicate
>>>>> that you have turned on sync-locking - especially now that we have
>>>>> removed the sync-lock buttonfrom the Edit Toolbar (where I agree it
>>>>> did not belong.
>>>>>
>>>>> And note if nothing is sele`cted and no cursor position is selected you
>>>>> don't get the gray-blobs at all - it's only when you click a cursor position
>>>>> in one of the  tracks that the gray-blobs appear.
>>>>
>>>> I think that's a bug (not a regression over 2.1.3).
>>>
>>> Al Dimond refused to change this ever since he created Sync-Lock
>>> Tracks, because the icon represents Sync-Lock-selectedness.
>>
>> What exactly is "Sync-Lock-selectedness"?
>
> It's a track selected only by reason of it being in a Sync-Locked Track
> Group.

So that's telling us the same as we can see from the track background
with clocks?

Steve

>
>
>> "Selection" is still shown in the normal way, and "selected by virtue
>> of Sync-Lock" is shown by the presence of the background clocks. What
>> is not currently shown is if a track is "Sync-Locked" when all or none
>> of the tracks are selected. We really should try to avoid designs
>> where the behaviour is changed by unseen mysterious forces.
>>
>>> No tracks are selected. It's fine until you want to use Time Shift Tool.
>>>
>>> I think it would be reasonable compromise for 2.2.0 for the Sync-Lock
>>> icon to appear in the tracks when changing to Time Shift Tool and
>>> no tracks are selected.
>>
>> For 2.2.0 I'd settle for the icon looking like a clock rather than a
>> blob. That satisfies the "no worse than before" policy.
>
> We need to decide whether sync-lock icon in the track is only
> an indicator of sync-lock selectedness, or is a button that changes
> sync-locked state of that track.
>
>
> Gale
>
>
>>>> Say that Sinc-Lock was active last time you used Audacity, then...
>>>> 1) Launch Audacity
>>>> 2) Record a track.
>>>> 3) Shift + R to record a second track
>>>> 4) Change to the Time Shift tool
>>>> 5) Slide the second track left/right to some alignment with the first track
>>>>
>>>> In step 5, both tracks move together. There has been no visible
>>>> indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>>>>
>>>> A grey blob does not really help much in the above scenario.
>>>>
>>>> I've not yet looked at this part of the theme code, but I think, as
>>>> Peter implies, that this is more than a purely cosmetic change and if
>>>> possible it needs to be improved before release. If it requires more
>>>> than a reasonable amount of work to fix it, then perhaps we consider
>>>> using the Classic theme as the default? (Not ideal, but perhaps better
>>>> than now).
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from
>>>>>> the sync-lock group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light,
>>>>>> but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of
>>>>>> the magnifying glass frame.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.
>>>>>> I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for
>>>>>> wording, finding where we can systematic changes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --James.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>>>>>>> horribly
>>>>>>> fuzzy and indistinct
>>>>>>> when using light them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>>>>>>> S-L
>>>>>>> icon
>>>>>>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>>>>>>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>>>>>>> darn
>>>>>>> hard to discern
>>>>>>> that it is a clock.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> alpha cersions before
>>>>>>> Steve's changes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Gale
Administrator
On 14 June 2017 at 17:15, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14 June 2017 at 16:54, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 14 June 2017 at 14:53, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On 14 June 2017 at 14:21, Gale Andrews <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On 14 June 2017 at 08:58, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> On 14 June 2017 at 07:48, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the
>>>>>>> big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before
>>>>>>> release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
>>>>>>> OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is
>>>>>>> redundant information.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Opinions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, but it's nor redundant informatiom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You only get the pattern in the selection when you have a selection.
>>>>>
>>>>> More specifically, only when you have a selection in one or more
>>>>> tracks and not in others. If all, or none are selected, then that icon
>>>>> is the only indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With no selection active the gray-blob is the only visual cue to indicate
>>>>>> that you have turned on sync-locking - especially now that we have
>>>>>> removed the sync-lock buttonfrom the Edit Toolbar (where I agree it
>>>>>> did not belong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And note if nothing is sele`cted and no cursor position is selected you
>>>>>> don't get the gray-blobs at all - it's only when you click a cursor position
>>>>>> in one of the  tracks that the gray-blobs appear.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that's a bug (not a regression over 2.1.3).
>>>>
>>>> Al Dimond refused to change this ever since he created Sync-Lock
>>>> Tracks, because the icon represents Sync-Lock-selectedness.
>>>
>>> What exactly is "Sync-Lock-selectedness"?
>>
>> It's a track selected only by reason of it being in a Sync-Locked Track
>> Group.
>
> So that's telling us the same as we can see from the track background
> with clocks?

Yes except it is also telling you that the the normally selected tracks that
don't have the clocks wallpaper are also in the sync-lock-selected group.


Gale

>>> "Selection" is still shown in the normal way, and "selected by virtue
>>> of Sync-Lock" is shown by the presence of the background clocks. What
>>> is not currently shown is if a track is "Sync-Locked" when all or none
>>> of the tracks are selected. We really should try to avoid designs
>>> where the behaviour is changed by unseen mysterious forces.
>>>
>>>> No tracks are selected. It's fine until you want to use Time Shift Tool.
>>>>
>>>> I think it would be reasonable compromise for 2.2.0 for the Sync-Lock
>>>> icon to appear in the tracks when changing to Time Shift Tool and
>>>> no tracks are selected.
>>>
>>> For 2.2.0 I'd settle for the icon looking like a clock rather than a
>>> blob. That satisfies the "no worse than before" policy.
>>
>> We need to decide whether sync-lock icon in the track is only
>> an indicator of sync-lock selectedness, or is a button that changes
>> sync-locked state of that track.
>>
>>
>> Gale
>>
>>
>>>>> Say that Sinc-Lock was active last time you used Audacity, then...
>>>>> 1) Launch Audacity
>>>>> 2) Record a track.
>>>>> 3) Shift + R to record a second track
>>>>> 4) Change to the Time Shift tool
>>>>> 5) Slide the second track left/right to some alignment with the first track
>>>>>
>>>>> In step 5, both tracks move together. There has been no visible
>>>>> indication that Sync-Lock is enabled.
>>>>>
>>>>> A grey blob does not really help much in the above scenario.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've not yet looked at this part of the theme code, but I think, as
>>>>> Peter implies, that this is more than a purely cosmetic change and if
>>>>> possible it needs to be improved before release. If it requires more
>>>>> than a reasonable amount of work to fix it, then perhaps we consider
>>>>> using the Classic theme as the default? (Not ideal, but perhaps better
>>>>> than now).
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from
>>>>>>> the sync-lock group.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light,
>>>>>>> but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of
>>>>>>> the magnifying glass frame.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.
>>>>>>> I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for
>>>>>>> wording, finding where we can systematic changes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --James.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but
>>>>>>>> horribly
>>>>>>>> fuzzy and indistinct
>>>>>>>> when using light them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme
>>>>>>>> S-L
>>>>>>>> icon
>>>>>>>> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
>>>>>>>> but I stayed my hand ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's
>>>>>>>> darn
>>>>>>>> hard to discern
>>>>>>>> that it is a clock.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> alpha cersions before
>>>>>>>> Steve's changes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Audacity-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>
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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Paul Licameli
In reply to this post by Peter Sampson-2


On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 2:48 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)

I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is redundant information.

Opinions?

Sorry, but it's nor redundant informatiom.

You only get the pattern in the selection when you have a selection.
 
With no selection active the gray-blob is the only visual cue to indicate
that you have turned on sync-locking - especially now that we have
removed the sync-lock buttonfrom the Edit Toolbar (where I agree it
did not belong.

And note if nothing is sele`cted and no cursor position is selected you
don't get the gray-blobs at all - it's only when you click a cursor position
in one of the  tracks that the gray-blobs appear.

Peter
 

Peter is right, it's not redundant.  Also:  Make a Wave track and a Label track below it, select all, and duplicate.  Now you have two sync-lock groups.  Select either of the Wave tracks alone, and the watch appears in that track and its companion label track, while the watch does not appear in the other tracks.  This shows you that there is more than one independent sync-lock group.

PRL

 

2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from the sync-lock group.



Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light, but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of the magnifying glass frame.

Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.  I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for wording, finding where we can systematic changes.

--James.



On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but horribly
fuzzy and indistinct
when using light them.

I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme S-L
icon
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
but I stayed my hand ...

It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's darn
hard to discern
that it is a clock.

This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same in
alpha cersions before
Steve's changes.

Peter.



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Re: Sync-lock icon in TCP is very indistinct in Light theme

Peter Sampson-2
Testing on W10 audacity-win-r07b53b4-2.2.0-alpha-15-jun-17

Looks *much* better now - gray-goo sync-lock nicely banished :-))

Peter.

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Paul Licameli <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 2:48 AM, Peter Sampson <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:42 PM, James Crook <[hidden email]> wrote:
But but but consistency... the little grey goo blob is consistent with the big grey goo blobs actually in the track panel. :-)

I agree it would be better to change the little grey goo blob before release, and e.g make the light theme version of it the same as classic.
OR we could not show it, and rely on the pattern in the selection.  It is redundant information.

Opinions?

Sorry, but it's nor redundant informatiom.

You only get the pattern in the selection when you have a selection.
 
With no selection active the gray-blob is the only visual cue to indicate
that you have turned on sync-locking - especially now that we have
removed the sync-lock buttonfrom the Edit Toolbar (where I agree it
did not belong.

And note if nothing is sele`cted and no cursor position is selected you
don't get the gray-blobs at all - it's only when you click a cursor position
in one of the  tracks that the gray-blobs appear.

Peter
 

Peter is right, it's not redundant.  Also:  Make a Wave track and a Label track below it, select all, and duplicate.  Now you have two sync-lock groups.  Select either of the Wave tracks alone, and the watch appears in that track and its companion label track, while the watch does not appear in the other tracks.  This shows you that there is more than one independent sync-lock group.

PRL

 

2.2.1, perhaps, it should become a pucca button, to add/remove items from the sync-lock group.



Gale's point about the magnify icons.  I wouldn't change them for Light, but perhaps we can make the + and - bigger in HiContrast and remove some of the magnifying glass frame.

Problem with Gui/Theme is we could spend forever tweaking in small steps.  I think there is a case for batching-up changes, rather as we do for wording, finding where we can systematic changes.

--James.



On 6/13/2017 4:49 PM, Peter Sampson wrote:
The sync-lock icon in the TCPs is ine in Classic, ok in Dark - but horribly
fuzzy and indistinct
when using light them.

I was just about to update this page in the Manual with the Light theme S-L
icon
http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Audio_Tracks
but I stayed my hand ...

It's fine f you know wher it lives and can see its presence - but it's darn
hard to discern
that it is a clock.

This is not a result of Steve's recent changes to the TCP it's the same in
alpha cersions before
Steve's changes.

Peter.



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