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Time Track alternatives

Stevethefiddle
From a recent post on the forum:
https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=95995

"I really find the Turntable Warp plugin very interesting. However,
I've tried to modify it so that there is no amplitude change, nor
Change Time (i.e. I want it to slide for the whole entire selection).
Ever since I've tried to modify it, I never got it to work, So I need
some help please."

and then later, and most importantly:

"What I am trying to do is change the speed from one point to another,
that's all. In other words, create a Jaws-accessible version of
timetracks."

I'm aware that Time Tracks are not accessible.

I'm guessing that "Sliding Time Scale / Pitch Shift" is accessible,
but awkward to use (perhaps David can comment?) It is more complicated
than necessary as a Time Track alternative, and it is slow.

Having looked at the Turntable Warp plug-in, the basic idea looks
pretty good, and it is quite fast (MUCH faster than Sliding Time
Scale), but the code is very buggy. Getting it right is quite tricky,
but I'm confident that I can do that if it is worth the effort.

In terms of sound quality, there is very noticeable aliasing when
processing generated tones, but for real-world recorded sounds the
quality is pretty good.

Q. How much effort is it worth to make an accessible "sliding speed" effect?
Q. If available, would we want to ship it?
Q. The OP envisaged quite a simple interface with just two controls -
start speed and end speed. That sounds good to me - how's that from an
accessibility point of view?

Steve

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Re: Time Track alternatives

David Bailes-3
On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
From a recent post on the forum:
https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=95995

"I really find the Turntable Warp plugin very interesting. However,
I've tried to modify it so that there is no amplitude change, nor
Change Time (i.e. I want it to slide for the whole entire selection).
Ever since I've tried to modify it, I never got it to work, So I need
some help please."

and then later, and most importantly:

"What I am trying to do is change the speed from one point to another,
that's all. In other words, create a Jaws-accessible version of
timetracks."

I'm aware that Time Tracks are not accessible.

I'm guessing that "Sliding Time Scale / Pitch Shift" is accessible,
but awkward to use (perhaps David can comment?)

Using Jaws, the names of the tempo change edit boxes get read out twice (so that nvda reads them once), but apart from that, entering two values in these two edit boxes should be fine.

It is more complicated
than necessary as a Time Track alternative, and it is slow.

Having looked at the Turntable Warp plug-in, the basic idea looks
pretty good, and it is quite fast (MUCH faster than Sliding Time
Scale), but the code is very buggy. Getting it right is quite tricky,
but I'm confident that I can do that if it is worth the effort.

In terms of sound quality, there is very noticeable aliasing when
processing generated tones, but for real-world recorded sounds the
quality is pretty good.

Q. How much effort is it worth to make an accessible "sliding speed" effect?

If the time tracks were accessible for keyboard users, would an envelope point at the start and end of the track do what the user wants?
If so, then there may be an argument that any available development time would be better spent working towards making the timeline keyboard accessible.

Q. If available, would we want to ship it?
Q. The OP envisaged quite a simple interface with just two controls -
start speed and end speed. That sounds good to me - how's that from an
accessibility point of view?

I can't see any problem with that,

David. 

Steve


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Re: Time Track alternatives

Stevethefiddle
On 3 June 2017 at 13:16, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> From a recent post on the forum:
>> https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=95995
>>
>> "I really find the Turntable Warp plugin very interesting. However,
>> I've tried to modify it so that there is no amplitude change, nor
>> Change Time (i.e. I want it to slide for the whole entire selection).
>> Ever since I've tried to modify it, I never got it to work, So I need
>> some help please."
>>
>> and then later, and most importantly:
>>
>> "What I am trying to do is change the speed from one point to another,
>> that's all. In other words, create a Jaws-accessible version of
>> timetracks."
>>
>> I'm aware that Time Tracks are not accessible.
>>
>> I'm guessing that "Sliding Time Scale / Pitch Shift" is accessible,
>> but awkward to use (perhaps David can comment?)
>
>
> Using Jaws, the names of the tempo change edit boxes get read out twice (so
> that nvda reads them once), but apart from that, entering two values in
> these two edit boxes should be fine.
>
>> It is more complicated
>> than necessary as a Time Track alternative, and it is slow.
>>
>> Having looked at the Turntable Warp plug-in, the basic idea looks
>> pretty good, and it is quite fast (MUCH faster than Sliding Time
>> Scale), but the code is very buggy. Getting it right is quite tricky,
>> but I'm confident that I can do that if it is worth the effort.
>>
>> In terms of sound quality, there is very noticeable aliasing when
>> processing generated tones, but for real-world recorded sounds the
>> quality is pretty good.
>>
>> Q. How much effort is it worth to make an accessible "sliding speed"
>> effect?
>
>
> If the time tracks were accessible for keyboard users, would an envelope
> point at the start and end of the track do what the user wants?

If time tracks were accessible, I guess that would be the perfect solution.
I think it would also be required that envelope points can be added,
removed and navigated, so that, for example, you can make the final 3
seconds of a track slow down.

> If so, then there may be an argument that any available development time
> would be better spent working towards making the timeline keyboard
> accessible.

A Nyquist plug-in is more likely to happen sooner.
I doubt that we will get accessible time line in Audacity 2.2.0,
though perhaps a good project for 2.2.1?

>
>> Q. If available, would we want to ship it?
>> Q. The OP envisaged quite a simple interface with just two controls -
>> start speed and end speed. That sounds good to me - how's that from an
>> accessibility point of view?
>
>
> I can't see any problem with that,

Thanks for your comments David. I'm encouraged to make this plug-in as
I think it will at least be a useful stop-gap until time tracks are
made accessible.

Whether we ship it, or just have it on the wiki can be decided after testing.

Steve

>
> David.
>>
>>
>> Steve
>
>

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Re: Time Track alternatives

Stevethefiddle
Attached is a "Sliding Speed Change" plug-in, which is hopefully
accessible and easy to use.

Steve

On 3 June 2017 at 14:24, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3 June 2017 at 13:16, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From a recent post on the forum:
>>> https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=95995
>>>
>>> "I really find the Turntable Warp plugin very interesting. However,
>>> I've tried to modify it so that there is no amplitude change, nor
>>> Change Time (i.e. I want it to slide for the whole entire selection).
>>> Ever since I've tried to modify it, I never got it to work, So I need
>>> some help please."
>>>
>>> and then later, and most importantly:
>>>
>>> "What I am trying to do is change the speed from one point to another,
>>> that's all. In other words, create a Jaws-accessible version of
>>> timetracks."
>>>
>>> I'm aware that Time Tracks are not accessible.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing that "Sliding Time Scale / Pitch Shift" is accessible,
>>> but awkward to use (perhaps David can comment?)
>>
>>
>> Using Jaws, the names of the tempo change edit boxes get read out twice (so
>> that nvda reads them once), but apart from that, entering two values in
>> these two edit boxes should be fine.
>>
>>> It is more complicated
>>> than necessary as a Time Track alternative, and it is slow.
>>>
>>> Having looked at the Turntable Warp plug-in, the basic idea looks
>>> pretty good, and it is quite fast (MUCH faster than Sliding Time
>>> Scale), but the code is very buggy. Getting it right is quite tricky,
>>> but I'm confident that I can do that if it is worth the effort.
>>>
>>> In terms of sound quality, there is very noticeable aliasing when
>>> processing generated tones, but for real-world recorded sounds the
>>> quality is pretty good.
>>>
>>> Q. How much effort is it worth to make an accessible "sliding speed"
>>> effect?
>>
>>
>> If the time tracks were accessible for keyboard users, would an envelope
>> point at the start and end of the track do what the user wants?
>
> If time tracks were accessible, I guess that would be the perfect solution.
> I think it would also be required that envelope points can be added,
> removed and navigated, so that, for example, you can make the final 3
> seconds of a track slow down.
>
>> If so, then there may be an argument that any available development time
>> would be better spent working towards making the timeline keyboard
>> accessible.
>
> A Nyquist plug-in is more likely to happen sooner.
> I doubt that we will get accessible time line in Audacity 2.2.0,
> though perhaps a good project for 2.2.1?
>
>>
>>> Q. If available, would we want to ship it?
>>> Q. The OP envisaged quite a simple interface with just two controls -
>>> start speed and end speed. That sounds good to me - how's that from an
>>> accessibility point of view?
>>
>>
>> I can't see any problem with that,
>
> Thanks for your comments David. I'm encouraged to make this plug-in as
> I think it will at least be a useful stop-gap until time tracks are
> made accessible.
>
> Whether we ship it, or just have it on the wiki can be decided after testing.
>
> Steve
>
>>
>> David.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>

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Re: Time Track alternatives

David Bailes-3
On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
Attached is a "Sliding Speed Change" plug-in, which is hopefully
accessible and easy to use.

this looks fine,
David.
 

Steve

On 3 June 2017 at 14:24, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 3 June 2017 at 13:16, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From a recent post on the forum:
>>> https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=95995
>>>
>>> "I really find the Turntable Warp plugin very interesting. However,
>>> I've tried to modify it so that there is no amplitude change, nor
>>> Change Time (i.e. I want it to slide for the whole entire selection).
>>> Ever since I've tried to modify it, I never got it to work, So I need
>>> some help please."
>>>
>>> and then later, and most importantly:
>>>
>>> "What I am trying to do is change the speed from one point to another,
>>> that's all. In other words, create a Jaws-accessible version of
>>> timetracks."
>>>
>>> I'm aware that Time Tracks are not accessible.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing that "Sliding Time Scale / Pitch Shift" is accessible,
>>> but awkward to use (perhaps David can comment?)
>>
>>
>> Using Jaws, the names of the tempo change edit boxes get read out twice (so
>> that nvda reads them once), but apart from that, entering two values in
>> these two edit boxes should be fine.
>>
>>> It is more complicated
>>> than necessary as a Time Track alternative, and it is slow.
>>>
>>> Having looked at the Turntable Warp plug-in, the basic idea looks
>>> pretty good, and it is quite fast (MUCH faster than Sliding Time
>>> Scale), but the code is very buggy. Getting it right is quite tricky,
>>> but I'm confident that I can do that if it is worth the effort.
>>>
>>> In terms of sound quality, there is very noticeable aliasing when
>>> processing generated tones, but for real-world recorded sounds the
>>> quality is pretty good.
>>>
>>> Q. How much effort is it worth to make an accessible "sliding speed"
>>> effect?
>>
>>
>> If the time tracks were accessible for keyboard users, would an envelope
>> point at the start and end of the track do what the user wants?
>
> If time tracks were accessible, I guess that would be the perfect solution.
> I think it would also be required that envelope points can be added,
> removed and navigated, so that, for example, you can make the final 3
> seconds of a track slow down.
>
>> If so, then there may be an argument that any available development time
>> would be better spent working towards making the timeline keyboard
>> accessible.
>
> A Nyquist plug-in is more likely to happen sooner.
> I doubt that we will get accessible time line in Audacity 2.2.0,
> though perhaps a good project for 2.2.1?
>
>>
>>> Q. If available, would we want to ship it?
>>> Q. The OP envisaged quite a simple interface with just two controls -
>>> start speed and end speed. That sounds good to me - how's that from an
>>> accessibility point of view?
>>
>>
>> I can't see any problem with that,
>
> Thanks for your comments David. I'm encouraged to make this plug-in as
> I think it will at least be a useful stop-gap until time tracks are
> made accessible.
>
> Whether we ship it, or just have it on the wiki can be decided after testing.
>
> Steve
>
>>
>> David.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>


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Re: Time Track alternatives

Stevethefiddle
On 5 July 2017 at 08:44, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Attached is a "Sliding Speed Change" plug-in, which is hopefully
>> accessible and easy to use.
>
>
> this looks fine,


Useful enough to ship with Audacity, or just put it on the wiki
(http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Nyquist_Effect_Plug-ins) ?

Steve


> David.
>
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On 3 June 2017 at 14:24, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On 3 June 2017 at 13:16, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Steve the Fiddle
>> >> <[hidden email]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> From a recent post on the forum:
>> >>> https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=95995
>> >>>
>> >>> "I really find the Turntable Warp plugin very interesting. However,
>> >>> I've tried to modify it so that there is no amplitude change, nor
>> >>> Change Time (i.e. I want it to slide for the whole entire selection).
>> >>> Ever since I've tried to modify it, I never got it to work, So I need
>> >>> some help please."
>> >>>
>> >>> and then later, and most importantly:
>> >>>
>> >>> "What I am trying to do is change the speed from one point to another,
>> >>> that's all. In other words, create a Jaws-accessible version of
>> >>> timetracks."
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm aware that Time Tracks are not accessible.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm guessing that "Sliding Time Scale / Pitch Shift" is accessible,
>> >>> but awkward to use (perhaps David can comment?)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Using Jaws, the names of the tempo change edit boxes get read out twice
>> >> (so
>> >> that nvda reads them once), but apart from that, entering two values in
>> >> these two edit boxes should be fine.
>> >>
>> >>> It is more complicated
>> >>> than necessary as a Time Track alternative, and it is slow.
>> >>>
>> >>> Having looked at the Turntable Warp plug-in, the basic idea looks
>> >>> pretty good, and it is quite fast (MUCH faster than Sliding Time
>> >>> Scale), but the code is very buggy. Getting it right is quite tricky,
>> >>> but I'm confident that I can do that if it is worth the effort.
>> >>>
>> >>> In terms of sound quality, there is very noticeable aliasing when
>> >>> processing generated tones, but for real-world recorded sounds the
>> >>> quality is pretty good.
>> >>>
>> >>> Q. How much effort is it worth to make an accessible "sliding speed"
>> >>> effect?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If the time tracks were accessible for keyboard users, would an
>> >> envelope
>> >> point at the start and end of the track do what the user wants?
>> >
>> > If time tracks were accessible, I guess that would be the perfect
>> > solution.
>> > I think it would also be required that envelope points can be added,
>> > removed and navigated, so that, for example, you can make the final 3
>> > seconds of a track slow down.
>> >
>> >> If so, then there may be an argument that any available development
>> >> time
>> >> would be better spent working towards making the timeline keyboard
>> >> accessible.
>> >
>> > A Nyquist plug-in is more likely to happen sooner.
>> > I doubt that we will get accessible time line in Audacity 2.2.0,
>> > though perhaps a good project for 2.2.1?
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> Q. If available, would we want to ship it?
>> >>> Q. The OP envisaged quite a simple interface with just two controls -
>> >>> start speed and end speed. That sounds good to me - how's that from an
>> >>> accessibility point of view?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I can't see any problem with that,
>> >
>> > Thanks for your comments David. I'm encouraged to make this plug-in as
>> > I think it will at least be a useful stop-gap until time tracks are
>> > made accessible.
>> >
>> > Whether we ship it, or just have it on the wiki can be decided after
>> > testing.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >>
>> >> David.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Steve
>> >>
>> >>
>
>
>
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Re: Time Track alternatives

Robert Hänggi
On 05/07/2017, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5 July 2017 at 08:44, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>> <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Attached is a "Sliding Speed Change" plug-in, which is hopefully
>>> accessible and easy to use.
>>
>>
>> this looks fine,
>
>
> Useful enough to ship with Audacity, or just put it on the wiki
> (http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Nyquist_Effect_Plug-ins) ?
>
It's rather a special case plug-in.

I would rather put it on the WIKI.
In fact, I would add a Category "Accessibility" where your excellent
"Text-Envelope" plug-in could go as well.

I use the latter a lot especially now that presets can be saved.

Robert

> Steve
>
>
>> David.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> On 3 June 2017 at 14:24, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>> > On 3 June 2017 at 13:16, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> >> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Steve the Fiddle
>>> >> <[hidden email]>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> From a recent post on the forum:
>>> >>> https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=95995
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "I really find the Turntable Warp plugin very interesting. However,
>>> >>> I've tried to modify it so that there is no amplitude change, nor
>>> >>> Change Time (i.e. I want it to slide for the whole entire
>>> >>> selection).
>>> >>> Ever since I've tried to modify it, I never got it to work, So I
>>> >>> need
>>> >>> some help please."
>>> >>>
>>> >>> and then later, and most importantly:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "What I am trying to do is change the speed from one point to
>>> >>> another,
>>> >>> that's all. In other words, create a Jaws-accessible version of
>>> >>> timetracks."
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm aware that Time Tracks are not accessible.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm guessing that "Sliding Time Scale / Pitch Shift" is accessible,
>>> >>> but awkward to use (perhaps David can comment?)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Using Jaws, the names of the tempo change edit boxes get read out
>>> >> twice
>>> >> (so
>>> >> that nvda reads them once), but apart from that, entering two values
>>> >> in
>>> >> these two edit boxes should be fine.
>>> >>
>>> >>> It is more complicated
>>> >>> than necessary as a Time Track alternative, and it is slow.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Having looked at the Turntable Warp plug-in, the basic idea looks
>>> >>> pretty good, and it is quite fast (MUCH faster than Sliding Time
>>> >>> Scale), but the code is very buggy. Getting it right is quite
>>> >>> tricky,
>>> >>> but I'm confident that I can do that if it is worth the effort.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In terms of sound quality, there is very noticeable aliasing when
>>> >>> processing generated tones, but for real-world recorded sounds the
>>> >>> quality is pretty good.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Q. How much effort is it worth to make an accessible "sliding speed"
>>> >>> effect?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> If the time tracks were accessible for keyboard users, would an
>>> >> envelope
>>> >> point at the start and end of the track do what the user wants?
>>> >
>>> > If time tracks were accessible, I guess that would be the perfect
>>> > solution.
>>> > I think it would also be required that envelope points can be added,
>>> > removed and navigated, so that, for example, you can make the final 3
>>> > seconds of a track slow down.
>>> >
>>> >> If so, then there may be an argument that any available development
>>> >> time
>>> >> would be better spent working towards making the timeline keyboard
>>> >> accessible.
>>> >
>>> > A Nyquist plug-in is more likely to happen sooner.
>>> > I doubt that we will get accessible time line in Audacity 2.2.0,
>>> > though perhaps a good project for 2.2.1?
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>> Q. If available, would we want to ship it?
>>> >>> Q. The OP envisaged quite a simple interface with just two controls
>>> >>> -
>>> >>> start speed and end speed. That sounds good to me - how's that from
>>> >>> an
>>> >>> accessibility point of view?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I can't see any problem with that,
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for your comments David. I'm encouraged to make this plug-in as
>>> > I think it will at least be a useful stop-gap until time tracks are
>>> > made accessible.
>>> >
>>> > Whether we ship it, or just have it on the wiki can be decided after
>>> > testing.
>>> >
>>> > Steve
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> David.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Steve
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Time Track alternatives

Stevethefiddle
On 5 July 2017 at 10:37, Robert Hänggi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 05/07/2017, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 5 July 2017 at 08:44, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Attached is a "Sliding Speed Change" plug-in, which is hopefully
>>>> accessible and easy to use.
>>>
>>>
>>> this looks fine,
>>
>>
>> Useful enough to ship with Audacity, or just put it on the wiki
>> (http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Nyquist_Effect_Plug-ins) ?
>>
> It's rather a special case plug-in.

Is it much more "special case" than the Time Track?

>
> I would rather put it on the WIKI.
> In fact, I would add a Category "Accessibility" where your excellent
> "Text-Envelope" plug-in could go as well.

An "Accessibility" section is an excellent idea.
I believe that you've also got some good plug-ins that could go in
that section (?)

Steve

>
> I use the latter a lot especially now that presets can be saved.
>
> Robert
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>> David.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>> On 3 June 2017 at 14:24, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > On 3 June 2017 at 13:16, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> >> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Steve the Fiddle
>>>> >> <[hidden email]>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> From a recent post on the forum:
>>>> >>> https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=95995
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> "I really find the Turntable Warp plugin very interesting. However,
>>>> >>> I've tried to modify it so that there is no amplitude change, nor
>>>> >>> Change Time (i.e. I want it to slide for the whole entire
>>>> >>> selection).
>>>> >>> Ever since I've tried to modify it, I never got it to work, So I
>>>> >>> need
>>>> >>> some help please."
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> and then later, and most importantly:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> "What I am trying to do is change the speed from one point to
>>>> >>> another,
>>>> >>> that's all. In other words, create a Jaws-accessible version of
>>>> >>> timetracks."
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm aware that Time Tracks are not accessible.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm guessing that "Sliding Time Scale / Pitch Shift" is accessible,
>>>> >>> but awkward to use (perhaps David can comment?)
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Using Jaws, the names of the tempo change edit boxes get read out
>>>> >> twice
>>>> >> (so
>>>> >> that nvda reads them once), but apart from that, entering two values
>>>> >> in
>>>> >> these two edit boxes should be fine.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> It is more complicated
>>>> >>> than necessary as a Time Track alternative, and it is slow.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Having looked at the Turntable Warp plug-in, the basic idea looks
>>>> >>> pretty good, and it is quite fast (MUCH faster than Sliding Time
>>>> >>> Scale), but the code is very buggy. Getting it right is quite
>>>> >>> tricky,
>>>> >>> but I'm confident that I can do that if it is worth the effort.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> In terms of sound quality, there is very noticeable aliasing when
>>>> >>> processing generated tones, but for real-world recorded sounds the
>>>> >>> quality is pretty good.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Q. How much effort is it worth to make an accessible "sliding speed"
>>>> >>> effect?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If the time tracks were accessible for keyboard users, would an
>>>> >> envelope
>>>> >> point at the start and end of the track do what the user wants?
>>>> >
>>>> > If time tracks were accessible, I guess that would be the perfect
>>>> > solution.
>>>> > I think it would also be required that envelope points can be added,
>>>> > removed and navigated, so that, for example, you can make the final 3
>>>> > seconds of a track slow down.
>>>> >
>>>> >> If so, then there may be an argument that any available development
>>>> >> time
>>>> >> would be better spent working towards making the timeline keyboard
>>>> >> accessible.
>>>> >
>>>> > A Nyquist plug-in is more likely to happen sooner.
>>>> > I doubt that we will get accessible time line in Audacity 2.2.0,
>>>> > though perhaps a good project for 2.2.1?
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Q. If available, would we want to ship it?
>>>> >>> Q. The OP envisaged quite a simple interface with just two controls
>>>> >>> -
>>>> >>> start speed and end speed. That sounds good to me - how's that from
>>>> >>> an
>>>> >>> accessibility point of view?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I can't see any problem with that,
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks for your comments David. I'm encouraged to make this plug-in as
>>>> > I think it will at least be a useful stop-gap until time tracks are
>>>> > made accessible.
>>>> >
>>>> > Whether we ship it, or just have it on the wiki can be decided after
>>>> > testing.
>>>> >
>>>> > Steve
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> David.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Steve
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: Time Track alternatives

Robert Hänggi
On 05/07/2017, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 5 July 2017 at 10:37, Robert Hänggi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 05/07/2017, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On 5 July 2017 at 08:44, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Steve the Fiddle
>>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Attached is a "Sliding Speed Change" plug-in, which is hopefully
>>>>> accessible and easy to use.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> this looks fine,
>>>
>>>
>>> Useful enough to ship with Audacity, or just put it on the wiki
>>> (http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Nyquist_Effect_Plug-ins) ?
>>>
>> It's rather a special case plug-in.
>
> Is it much more "special case" than the Time Track?

It is special because a non-destructive feature is replaced by a
destructive one. Once the effect is applied, it can't be undone or
edited or muted etc.

>
>>
>> I would rather put it on the WIKI.
>> In fact, I would add a Category "Accessibility" where your excellent
>> "Text-Envelope" plug-in could go as well.
>
> An "Accessibility" section is an excellent idea.
> I believe that you've also got some good plug-ins that could go in
> that section (?)

Yes, I've got a couple of them. So, we would have a nicely populated
category to start with.

Robert

>
> Steve
>
>>
>> I use the latter a lot especially now that presets can be saved.
>>
>> Robert
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>> David.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3 June 2017 at 14:24, Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > On 3 June 2017 at 13:16, David Bailes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> >> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Steve the Fiddle
>>>>> >> <[hidden email]>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> From a recent post on the forum:
>>>>> >>> https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=95995
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> "I really find the Turntable Warp plugin very interesting. However,
>>>>> >>> I've tried to modify it so that there is no amplitude change, nor
>>>>> >>> Change Time (i.e. I want it to slide for the whole entire
>>>>> >>> selection).
>>>>> >>> Ever since I've tried to modify it, I never got it to work, So I
>>>>> >>> need
>>>>> >>> some help please."
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> and then later, and most importantly:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> "What I am trying to do is change the speed from one point to
>>>>> >>> another,
>>>>> >>> that's all. In other words, create a Jaws-accessible version of
>>>>> >>> timetracks."
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> I'm aware that Time Tracks are not accessible.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> I'm guessing that "Sliding Time Scale / Pitch Shift" is accessible,
>>>>> >>> but awkward to use (perhaps David can comment?)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Using Jaws, the names of the tempo change edit boxes get read out
>>>>> >> twice
>>>>> >> (so
>>>>> >> that nvda reads them once), but apart from that, entering two values
>>>>> >> in
>>>>> >> these two edit boxes should be fine.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> It is more complicated
>>>>> >>> than necessary as a Time Track alternative, and it is slow.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Having looked at the Turntable Warp plug-in, the basic idea looks
>>>>> >>> pretty good, and it is quite fast (MUCH faster than Sliding Time
>>>>> >>> Scale), but the code is very buggy. Getting it right is quite
>>>>> >>> tricky,
>>>>> >>> but I'm confident that I can do that if it is worth the effort.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> In terms of sound quality, there is very noticeable aliasing when
>>>>> >>> processing generated tones, but for real-world recorded sounds the
>>>>> >>> quality is pretty good.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Q. How much effort is it worth to make an accessible "sliding
>>>>> >>> speed"
>>>>> >>> effect?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> If the time tracks were accessible for keyboard users, would an
>>>>> >> envelope
>>>>> >> point at the start and end of the track do what the user wants?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If time tracks were accessible, I guess that would be the perfect
>>>>> > solution.
>>>>> > I think it would also be required that envelope points can be added,
>>>>> > removed and navigated, so that, for example, you can make the final 3
>>>>> > seconds of a track slow down.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> If so, then there may be an argument that any available development
>>>>> >> time
>>>>> >> would be better spent working towards making the timeline keyboard
>>>>> >> accessible.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > A Nyquist plug-in is more likely to happen sooner.
>>>>> > I doubt that we will get accessible time line in Audacity 2.2.0,
>>>>> > though perhaps a good project for 2.2.1?
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> Q. If available, would we want to ship it?
>>>>> >>> Q. The OP envisaged quite a simple interface with just two controls
>>>>> >>> -
>>>>> >>> start speed and end speed. That sounds good to me - how's that from
>>>>> >>> an
>>>>> >>> accessibility point of view?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I can't see any problem with that,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks for your comments David. I'm encouraged to make this plug-in
>>>>> > as
>>>>> > I think it will at least be a useful stop-gap until time tracks are
>>>>> > made accessible.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Whether we ship it, or just have it on the wiki can be decided after
>>>>> > testing.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Steve
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> David.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Steve
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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