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improvement to track display

carrt7
(HP530 laptop, Win7, Audacity 1.3.14B)

I like to display Audacity full-screen, and have my tracks a standard width (to allow volume assessment by eye) but leave room for an extra track.  So I start with two stereo tracks and one label track, use CTL-SHFT-F to fill the screen vertically, then erase one of the stereo tracks.

This gives a nice display, I can label sections, and I have room for another track for mixing.

BUT, Audacity is uncivilized.  If I press ALT-T,N,S (or press the RECORD button), it generates a huge track that blows half of my display off the screen.

Can it be tamed?  Tony


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Re: improvement to track display

Stevethefiddle
While recording, or when creating a new track, it is generally useful
for that new track to be a reasonable high (as it currently is). The
problem I find is that there is not much room on my monitor to get see
a lot of tracks at the same time. The way that I get round this is to
regularly use Ctrl+shift+C (Collapse all tracks). This minimises
(vertically) all tracks, then by clicking on the "expand" arrow at the
bottom of a track I can restore any track that I am working on at the
time.

Steve

On 26 October 2012 00:04, Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (HP530 laptop, Win7, Audacity 1.3.14B)
>
> I like to display Audacity full-screen, and have my tracks a standard width
> (to allow volume assessment by eye) but leave room for an extra track.  So I
> start with two stereo tracks and one label track, use CTL-SHFT-F to fill the
> screen vertically, then erase one of the stereo tracks.
>
> This gives a nice display, I can label sections, and I have room for another
> track for mixing.
>
> BUT, Audacity is uncivilized.  If I press ALT-T,N,S (or press the RECORD
> button), it generates a huge track that blows half of my display off the
> screen.
>
> Can it be tamed?  Tony
>
>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
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> help you properly:
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> 10.5.1)
>
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> About
>    Audacity, or Audacity >  About Audacity on a Mac computer)
>
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> how is it
>    connected to the computer?
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Re: improvement to track display

Gale (Audacity Team)
Administrator
In reply to this post by carrt7
"carrt7" wrote:
> HP530 laptop, Win7, Audacity 1.3.14B)
Audacity is now at 2.0.2. I recommend upgrading.

> I like to display Audacity full-screen, and have my tracks a standard width
> (to allow volume assessment by eye) but leave room for an extra track.  So
> I start with two stereo tracks and one label track, use CTL-SHFT-F to fill
> the screen vertically, then erase one of the stereo tracks.
>
> This gives a nice display, I can label sections, and I have room for
> another track for mixing.
>
> BUT, Audacity is uncivilized.  If I press ALT-T,N,S (or press the RECORD
> button), it generates a huge track that blows half of my display off the
> screen.

I am not sure if you want a new track that you can record into at that point, but
you could append record (SHIFT + R) into the same track.

Also if you have the "Automatically fit tracks vertically zoomed" preference set
(Tracks Preferences), then the new track would be fitted to the screen height
automatically (though a new recorded track won't be fitted until you stop
recording, which is probably a bug).

 
> Can it be tamed?  Tony
Do you want to vote to have a preference for default height of new tracks?

You could try creating a project with track height and layout as you want to
start out with - see here:
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?p=194428#p194428 .

 

Gale

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Re: improvement to track display

carrt7
> HP530 laptop, Win7, Audacity 1.3.14B)
> I like to display Audacity full-screen, and have my tracks a standard
> width
> (to allow volume assessment by eye) but leave room for an extra track.  So
> I start with two stereo tracks and one label track, use CTL-SHFT-F to fill
> the screen vertically, then erase one of the stereo tracks.
>
> BUT, Audacity is uncivilized.  If I press ALT-T,N,S (or press the RECORD
> button), it generates a huge track that blows half of my display off the
> screen.

Also if you have the "Automatically fit tracks vertically zoomed" preference
set ...

That's a nice facility.  Thanks.  But not compatible with standard track height.
 
Do you want to vote to have a preference for default height of new tracks?

Yes please:  I would like to be able to set the default height by size OR "same as existing track".  The same-as option would generate a data track same height as the existing data track, or label track same height as the existing label track, etc.

If there are existing tracks of different heights, it could match the lowest one - or tell the operator to get lost ...

You could try creating a project with track height and layout as you want to
start out with - see here:
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?p=194428#p194428 .

Good suggestion - but Audacity won't currently use it the way I want?

As a music editor, I need a data track for the product, plus another data track as workspace - to record or copy a clip, modify it, move it to sync with the product, listen to the result, fade out ends with correct overlap, etc.

I could start with a template of two empty data tracks with a label track between them.  Fine.  But then (a) if I load in an existing product, it will not load into either of these, but into a new window.  And (b) if I record a clip via the sound card, it will not fill either track, but make itself a new track underneath!

Or did I miss something?  Thanks for the help.  Tony
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Re: improvement to track display

Gale (Audacity Team)
Administrator

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:07:43 -0400
Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > HP530 laptop, Win7, Audacity 1.3.14B)
> > I like to display Audacity full-screen, and have my tracks a standard
>
> > > width
> > > (to allow volume assessment by eye) but leave room for an extra track.
> >  So
> > > I start with two stereo tracks and one label track, use CTL-SHFT-F to
> > fill
> > > the screen vertically, then erase one of the stereo tracks.
> > >
> > > BUT, Audacity is uncivilized.  If I press ALT-T,N,S (or press the RECORD
> > > button), it generates a huge track that blows half of my display off the
> > > screen.
> >
> > Also if you have the "Automatically fit tracks vertically zoomed"
> > preference
> > set ...
> >
>
> That's a nice facility.  Thanks.  But not compatible with standard track
> height.
>
>
> > Do you want to vote to have a preference for default height of new tracks?
> >
>
> Yes please:  I would like to be able to set the default height by size OR
> "same as existing track".  The same-as option would generate a data track
> same height as the existing data track, or label track same height as the
> existing label track, etc.
>
> If there are existing tracks of different heights, it could match the
> lowest one - or tell the operator to get lost ...

"Same as" seems a little complex for a Preference.  The only way I can
think "Same as" would work would be an item in the Track Drop-Down
Menu "Set Default Height". It could perhaps link with a Preference
however, so that setting the default height in the Drop-Down would
make the Preference display the new default height.  

 

> You could try creating a project with track height and layout as you want to
> > start out with - see here:
> > http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?p=194428#p194428 .
> >
>
> Good suggestion - but Audacity won't currently use it the way I want?
>
> As a music editor, I need a data track for the product, plus another data
> track as workspace - to record or copy a clip, modify it, move it to sync
> with the product, listen to the result, fade out ends with correct overlap,
> etc.
>
> I could start with a template of two empty data tracks with a label track
> between them.  Fine.  But then (a) if I load in an existing product, it
> will not load into either of these, but into a new window.

The template is only for new projects.

If the existing product is an Audacity project then the track height
can be saved in the project (as long as you make some other edit
that forces a save after setting the track height, per the Forum .
thread above).  


> (b) if I record a clip via the sound card, it will not fill either track,
> but make itself a new track underneath!

Append-Record, as suggested previously.






Gale

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Re: improvement to track display

carrt7
Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > HP530 laptop, Win7, Audacity 1.3.14B)
> ... Yes please:  I would like to be able to set the default height by size OR
> "same as existing track".  The same-as option would generate a data track
> same height as the existing data track, or label track same height as the
> existing label track, etc....


"Same as" seems a little complex for a Preference.  The only way I can
think "Same as" would work would be an item in the Track Drop-Down
Menu "Set Default Height". It could perhaps link with a Preference
however, so that setting the default height in the Drop-Down would
make the Preference display the new default height.

Yes!  Excellent.

> You could try creating a project with track height and layout as you want to
> > start out with - see here:
> > http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?p=194428#p194428 .
>
> Good suggestion - but Audacity won't currently use it the way I want?
> I could start with a template of two empty data tracks with a label track
> between them.  Fine.  But then (a) if I load in an existing product, it
> will not load into either of these, but into a new window.

The template is only for new projects.

If the existing product is an Audacity project then the track height
can be saved in the project (as long as you make some other edit
that forces a save after setting the track height, per the Forum .
thread above).


> (b) if I record a clip via the sound card, it will not fill either track,
> but make itself a new track underneath!

Append-Record, as suggested previously.

Maybe a facility is missing?

To read in data to blend with my existing work, I must Open (which creates a new window), then select the addition, Cut, go back to my work data, and Paste the addition onto either the end of the work or a second track.  Likewise, to record additional data, I can (as you say) SHFT-Record onto the end of the work data, then select the addition, Cut, and Paste to a second track.

Much simpler would be a facility analogous to "Insert File" in a word processor.  InsertFile would show me the current directory, and download the selected audio into a new track *in the same window* as the existing work.  And, it could offer an option to insert newly recorded data in the same way?  Tony


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Re: improvement to track display

Gale (Audacity Team)
Administrator

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 14:25:28 -0400
Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > [...] You could try creating a project with track height and layout as you want
> to
> > > start out with - see here:
> > > http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?p=194428#p194428 .
> >
> > Good suggestion - but Audacity won't currently use it the way I want?
> > I could start with a template of two empty data tracks with a label track
> > between them.  Fine.  But then (a) if I load in an existing product, it
> > will not load into either of these, but into a new window.
>
>  The template is only for new projects.
> >
> > If the existing product is an Audacity project then the track height
> > can be saved in the project (as long as you make some other edit
> > that forces a save after setting the track height, per the Forum .
> > thread above).
> >
> >
> > > (b) if I record a clip via the sound card, it will not fill either track,
> > > but make itself a new track underneath!
> >
> > Append-Record, as suggested previously.
> >
>
> Maybe a facility is missing?
>
> To read in data to blend with my existing work, I must Open (which creates
> a new window), then select the addition, Cut, go back to my work data, and
> Paste the addition onto either the end of the work or a second track.

Or (assuming this is not an Audacity project), File > Import Audio...
which imports the audio into a new track in the same project.


> Likewise, to record additional data, I can (as you say) SHFT-Record onto
> the end of the work data, then select the addition, Cut, and Paste to a
> second track.
>
> Much simpler would be a facility analogous to "Insert File" in a word
> processor.  InsertFile would show me the current directory, and download
> the selected audio into a new track *in the same window* as the existing
> work.

File > Import Audio already does that.

Sometime I hope that we can implement an "Import Append" feature to
import multiple files end-to-end in the same track.


> And, it could offer an option to insert newly recorded data in the
> same way?  Tony

If you have already recorded some audio in a project then you can
cut or copy, then paste it as with other audio?




Gale

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Re: improvement to track display

carrt7
> Maybe a facility is missing?
>
> To read in data to blend with my existing work, I must Open (which creates
> a new window), then select the addition, Cut, go back to my work data, and
> Paste the addition onto either the end of the work or a second track.

Or (assuming this is not an Audacity project), File > Import Audio...
which imports the audio into a new track in the same project.

Perfect!  Problem solved (aka RTFM).  Thanks.

Sometime I hope that we can implement an "Import Append" feature to
import multiple files end-to-end in the same track.

Yes, would be very nice.  Tony
 
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Re: improvement to track display

carrt7
In reply to this post by Gale (Audacity Team)

(HP530 laptop, Win7, Audacity 1.3.14B)
(Yes, I will upgrade soon!)

Audacity does three rather counter-intuitive things relating to track select/focus.

(1)
(a) I display a stereo track and a label track, and have the stereo track selected and in focus (i.e. the yellow box is around the stereo track, the header of the stereo track (but not of the label track) is blue-grey, and no part of the track is dark grey.    (Sorry this description is clumsy.)

(b) I click on the timer track to start playing, I press "[" and later "]" to select a portion of music by ear, and hit SPACE to stop play.  Then I press "CTL-B" and type in a name for the label, and hit ENTER.

Now I attempt to repeat the process from (a), to select and label the next bit of music, but Audacity fails me!  It does something very odd indeed, ending up by labelling a point in my track with the label "]  " and refusing to stop playing!

After experimenting, I realized this is because, after I hit ENTER, Audacity has left the focus (yellow box) around the label track - even though I am now playing the stereo track and clearly MY attention is focussed there.  I have to manually refocus Audacity on the stereo track, using SHIFT and the up/down keys.

(2)  If I complete step B, with my labelled portion of music selected (darkened), and then attempt to use Equalization (e.g. to amplify the music portion), Audacity will either do nothing or apply equalization to the whole track!

Again, experiment shows that this is because I have left the focus on the stereo track.  But clearly MY focus is on the music!

(3)  If I start step (b) with the focus (yellow box) on the stereo track but with the track NOT selected (its header is almost white), Audacity will allow me to "select" a portion of music with "[" and "]", and show this section darkened in the timer track only.  If I currently have no other track displayed, there is no way to apply this selection to the stereo track, so that I may edit it!

I have to add a label track, then use SHIFT up/down keys, in order to apply this selection to the stereo track.  Weird, eh?

Forgive me taking up everyone's time.  I hope the workarounds may help anyone stuck like me, and would like to suggest modifications to make Audacity guess what the user is focussed on, when it's obvious.

Tony
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Re: improvement to track display

Gale (Audacity Team)
Administrator

On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:04:02 -0500
Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (HP530 laptop, Win7, Audacity 1.3.14B)
> (Yes, I will upgrade soon!)
>
> Audacity does three rather counter-intuitive things relating to track
> select/focus.
>
> (1)
> (a) I display a stereo track and a label track, and have the stereo track
> selected and in focus (i.e. the yellow box is around the stereo track, the
> header of the stereo track (but not of the label track) is blue-grey, and
> no part of the track is dark grey.    (Sorry this description is clumsy.)
>
> (b) I click on the timer track to start playing, I press "[" and later "]"
> to select a portion of music by ear, and hit SPACE to stop play.  Then I
> press "CTL-B" and type in a name for the label, and hit ENTER.
>
> Now I attempt to repeat the process from (a), to select and label the next
> bit of music, but Audacity fails me!  It does something very odd indeed,
> ending up by labelling a point in my track with the label "]  " and
> refusing to stop playing!
>
> After experimenting, I realized this is because, after I hit ENTER,
> Audacity has left the focus (yellow box) around the label track - even
> though I am now playing the stereo track and clearly MY attention is
> focussed there.  I have to manually refocus Audacity on the stereo track,
> using SHIFT and the up/down keys.

This problem arises because there is a competing feature requirement
(strongly supported by one of the developers) to be able to type in
the label track when it has the yellow focus border, without first using
the CTRL + B shortcut.

We've partially fixed some of the conflicts this problem creates, but
IMO the only clean solution is to make "type at once in the focused
label track" a preference, or find some other way to indicate to the
label track that it should accept keyboard input without CTRL + B
first.

So you'll have to adapt your workflow. For example, hold CTRL then
click in the waveform to start playback at the click point.

By the way, after ENTER to complete the label, UP arrow is sufficient
(without SHIFT) to move focus to the audio track. Using SHIFT with UP
or DOWN arrow extends selectedness into the the unselected track
you're moving focus into. Without SHIFT, there are no selectedness
changes.

 
> (2)  If I complete step B, with my labelled portion of music selected
> (darkened), and then attempt to use Equalization (e.g. to amplify the music
> portion), Audacity will either do nothing or apply equalization to the
> whole track!
>
> Again, experiment shows that this is because I have left the focus on the
> stereo track.  But clearly MY focus is on the music!

I don't think so. Effects work on selections in the audio track. There
should be no problem if you ENTER once after typing the label, which  
will leave the selection in the audio track (as well as the label track).

If you arranged things so that the selection is only in the label, there
is no audio selection to apply the effect to. Audacity's default
behaviour is then to select all the project audio, rather than grey out
all the effects because there is no audio selection.

If you prefer the effects to grey out when there is no audio selection,
go to the Tracks Preferences, then uncheck "Select all audio in project,
if none selected".  

 
> (3)  If I start step (b) with the focus (yellow box) on the stereo track
> but with the track NOT selected (its header is almost white), Audacity will
> allow me to "select" a portion of music with "[" and "]", and show this
> section darkened in the timer track only.  If I currently have no other
> track displayed, there is no way to apply this selection to the stereo
> track, so that I may edit it!

You chose to deselect the audio track, but to reselect the audio track,
just hit ENTER.

 
> I have to add a label track, then use SHIFT up/down keys, in order to apply
> this selection to the stereo track.  Weird, eh?

No, see above.

By the way, the "Timer Track" is better described as Timeline:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/timeline.html

to distinguish it from Time Tracks:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/time_tracks.html .


Thanks,




Gale

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Re: improvement to track display

carrt7
Sorry Gale, missed this email.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 6:09 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If you prefer the effects to grey out when there is no audio selection,
> go to the Tracks Preferences, then uncheck "Select all audio in project,
> if none selected".
>
Brilliant!  One irritation removed.

>> (3)  If I start step (b) with the focus (yellow box) on the stereo track
>> but with the track NOT selected (its header is almost white), Audacity will
>> allow me to "select" a portion of music with "[" and "]", and show this
>> section darkened in the timer track only.  If I currently have no other
>> track displayed, there is no way to apply this selection to the stereo
>> track, so that I may edit it!
>
> You chose to deselect the audio track, but to reselect the audio track,
> just hit ENTER.

And another irritation removed!  Thanks. Tony

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*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

When asking for help on this list, please include the following information, so we can
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* What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)  

* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
   Audacity, or Audacity >  About Audacity on a Mac computer)  

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
   connected to the computer?

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