playback speed error

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playback speed error

carrt7
(Audacity 1.3.13beta, Dell Inspiron 640m, Win7, also running GKrellM)
(Host: Windows Direct Sound, using PortAudio V19-devel)
(Recording: Primary Sound Capture Driver, mono)
(Playback: Speakers - High Definition Audio Device)
(Sample 32,000Hz 24bit fast sinc)

When I record (from MS LifeChat LX-3000 headset mike), the waveform
shows that Audacity is recording about 8% slower than real life!

(If I count seconds aloud from a stopwatch, you can see the words
appearing at intervals of just over a second.  When I reach 60
seconds, Audacity shows the last voice peak at around 1m6sec according
to the time-scale over the waveform.)

When I play it back, my voice is a little lower and slower - takes 66
sec to playback a minute of recording.

I figured no problem, I can adjust the playback speed (which is at
present set to 1.0).  But no.

When I move the tempo slider (or double-click it and edit the number
and press OK), although the slider remembers and keeps the setting,
the playback speed is unaffected!

I tried closing GKrellM, but it made no difference.

Did I forget something?   (screenshot attached, in case it helps)

Tony
--
www.godornot.org

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Re: playback speed error

Stevethefiddle
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (Audacity 1.3.13beta, Dell Inspiron 640m, Win7, also running GKrellM)
> (Host: Windows Direct Sound, using PortAudio V19-devel)
> (Recording: Primary Sound Capture Driver, mono)
> (Playback: Speakers - High Definition Audio Device)
> (Sample 32,000Hz 24bit fast sinc)
>
> When I record (from MS LifeChat LX-3000 headset mike), the waveform
> shows that Audacity is recording about 8% slower than real life!
>
> (If I count seconds aloud from a stopwatch, you can see the words
> appearing at intervals of just over a second.  When I reach 60
> seconds, Audacity shows the last voice peak at around 1m6sec according
> to the time-scale over the waveform.)
>
> When I play it back, my voice is a little lower and slower - takes 66
> sec to playback a minute of recording.
>
> I figured no problem, I can adjust the playback speed (which is at
> present set to 1.0).  But no.


To change the playback speed, use "Change Speed" in the Effect menu.

Steve


>
> When I move the tempo slider (or double-click it and edit the number
> and press OK), although the slider remembers and keeps the setting,
> the playback speed is unaffected!
>
> I tried closing GKrellM, but it made no difference.
>
> Did I forget something?   (screenshot attached, in case it helps)
>
> Tony
> --
> www.godornot.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure
> contains a definitive record of customers, application performance,
> security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this
> data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d
> *********** ASKING FOR HELP *************
>
> When asking for help on this list, please include the following information, so we can
> help you properly:
>
> * What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)
>
> * Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
>   Audacity, or Audacity >  About Audacity on a Mac computer)
>
> * If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
>   connected to the computer?
>
> Mailing list: [hidden email]
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, use the form at the bottom of this web page:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

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* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
   Audacity, or Audacity >  About Audacity on a Mac computer)  

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Re: playback speed error

Gale
Administrator

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:51:51 +0000
Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > (Audacity 1.3.13beta, Dell Inspiron 640m, Win7, also running GKrellM)
> > (Host: Windows Direct Sound, using PortAudio V19-devel)
> > (Recording: Primary Sound Capture Driver, mono)
> > (Playback: Speakers - High Definition Audio Device)
> > (Sample 32,000Hz 24bit fast sinc)
> >
> > When I record (from MS LifeChat LX-3000 headset mike), the waveform
> > shows that Audacity is recording about 8% slower than real life! ...
> >
> > I figured no problem, I can adjust the playback speed (which is at
> > present set to 1.0).  But no.
> >
> > When I move the tempo slider (or double-click it and edit the number
> > and press OK), although the slider remembers and keeps the setting,
> > the playback speed is unaffected!
>
>
> To change the playback speed, use "Change Speed" in the Effect menu.
>
> Steve

The playback speed is only affected if you click the green Play-at-speed
button to left of the Playback Speed slider. If you use Space or click
the main Play button in Transport Toolbar, it plays at normal speed.




Gale  


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
   Audacity, or Audacity >  About Audacity on a Mac computer)  

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
   connected to the computer?

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Re: playback speed error

carrt7
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:21 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > (Audacity 1.3.13beta, Dell Inspiron 640m, Win7, also running GKrellM)
>> > (Host: Windows Direct Sound, using PortAudio V19-devel)
>> > (Recording: Primary Sound Capture Driver, mono)
>> > (Playback: Speakers - High Definition Audio Device)
>> > (Sample 32,000Hz 24bit fast sinc)
>> >
>> > When I record (from MS LifeChat LX-3000 headset mike), the waveform
>> > shows that Audacity is recording about 8% slower than real life! ...
>> >
>> > I figured no problem, I can adjust the playback speed (which is at
>> > present set to 1.0).  But no.
>> >
>> > When I move the tempo slider (or double-click it and edit the number
>> > and press OK), although the slider remembers and keeps the setting,
>> > the playback speed is unaffected!
>>
>>
>> To change the playback speed, use "Change Speed" in the Effect menu.
>>
>> Steve
>
> The playback speed is only affected if you click the green Play-at-speed
> button to left of the Playback Speed slider. If you use Space or click
> the main Play button in Transport Toolbar, it plays at normal speed.

That's fine for the solution.  Thanks.

But shouldn't Audacity, by default, play back at the same speed it records?
Tony
--
www.godornot.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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contains a definitive record of customers, application performance,
security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this
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* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
   Audacity, or Audacity >  About Audacity on a Mac computer)  

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
   connected to the computer?

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Re: playback speed error

Stevethefiddle
On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:21 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> > (Audacity 1.3.13beta, Dell Inspiron 640m, Win7, also running GKrellM)
>>> > (Host: Windows Direct Sound, using PortAudio V19-devel)
>>> > (Recording: Primary Sound Capture Driver, mono)
>>> > (Playback: Speakers - High Definition Audio Device)
>>> > (Sample 32,000Hz 24bit fast sinc)
>>> >
>>> > When I record (from MS LifeChat LX-3000 headset mike), the waveform
>>> > shows that Audacity is recording about 8% slower than real life! ...
>>> >
>>> > I figured no problem, I can adjust the playback speed (which is at
>>> > present set to 1.0).  But no.
>>> >
>>> > When I move the tempo slider (or double-click it and edit the number
>>> > and press OK), although the slider remembers and keeps the setting,
>>> > the playback speed is unaffected!
>>>
>>>
>>> To change the playback speed, use "Change Speed" in the Effect menu.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>> The playback speed is only affected if you click the green Play-at-speed
>> button to left of the Playback Speed slider. If you use Space or click
>> the main Play button in Transport Toolbar, it plays at normal speed.
>
> That's fine for the solution.  Thanks.
>
> But shouldn't Audacity, by default, play back at the same speed it records?
> Tony

Yes it should, but the speed is set by the sound card, not by
Audacity. If the sound card records and plays back at the same rate
then Audacity will play back at the same speed it records.

Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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* What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)  

* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
   Audacity, or Audacity >  About Audacity on a Mac computer)  

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
   connected to the computer?

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Re: playback speed error

Gale
Administrator

On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:49:32 +0000
Steve the Fiddle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 1:21 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> > (Audacity 1.3.13beta, Dell Inspiron 640m, Win7, also running GKrellM)
> >>> > (Host: Windows Direct Sound, using PortAudio V19-devel)
> >>> > (Recording: Primary Sound Capture Driver, mono)
> >>> > (Playback: Speakers - High Definition Audio Device)
> >>> > (Sample 32,000Hz 24bit fast sinc)
> >>> >
> >>> > When I record (from MS LifeChat LX-3000 headset mike), the waveform
> >>> > shows that Audacity is recording about 8% slower than real life! ...
> >>> >
> >>> > I figured no problem, I can adjust the playback speed (which is at
> >>> > present set to 1.0).  But no.
> >>> >
> >>> > When I move the tempo slider (or double-click it and edit the number
> >>> > and press OK), although the slider remembers and keeps the setting,
> >>> > the playback speed is unaffected!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To change the playback speed, use "Change Speed" in the Effect menu.
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>
> >> The playback speed is only affected if you click the green Play-at-speed
> >> button to left of the Playback Speed slider. If you use Space or click
> >> the main Play button in Transport Toolbar, it plays at normal speed.
> >
> > That's fine for the solution.  Thanks.
> >
> > But shouldn't Audacity, by default, play back at the same speed it records?
> > Tony
>
> Yes it should, but the speed is set by the sound card, not by
> Audacity. If the sound card records and plays back at the same rate
> then Audacity will play back at the same speed it records.
>
> Steve

I did not necessarily read that the playback and recording speed were
different, just that the recording speed was slow.

You said it takes 66 seconds to play back a minute of recording, but
that recorded waveform shows as 66 seconds. If you are counting
the 66 seconds during playback on a stopwatch, doesn't that suggest
playback speed is correct?

Is your "Primary Sound Capture Driver" (that is, the Windows default
recording device) the same device as the "High Definition" playback
device? Does this device have drivers supplied by the motherboard
or sound device manufacturer?
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Updating_Sound_Device_Drivers 





Gale


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure
contains a definitive record of customers, application performance,
security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this
data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d
*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

When asking for help on this list, please include the following information, so we can
help you properly:

* What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)  

* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
   Audacity, or Audacity >  About Audacity on a Mac computer)  

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
   connected to the computer?

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Re: playback speed error

carrt7
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:35 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> > (Audacity 1.3.13beta, Dell Inspiron 640m, Win7, also running GKrellM)
>> >>> > (Host: Windows Direct Sound, using PortAudio V19-devel)
>> >>> > (Recording: Primary Sound Capture Driver, mono)
>> >>> > (Playback: Speakers - High Definition Audio Device)
>> >>> > (Sample 32,000Hz 24bit fast sinc)
>> >>> > When I record (from MS LifeChat LX-3000 headset mike), the waveform
>> >>> > shows that Audacity is recording about 8% slower than real life! ...
>
> I did not necessarily read that the playback and recording speed were
> different, just that the recording speed was slow.
>
> You said it takes 66 seconds to play back a minute of recording, but
> that recorded waveform shows as 66 seconds. If you are counting
> the 66 seconds during playback on a stopwatch, doesn't that suggest
> playback speed is correct?

Apologies.  I tried to be clear and failed.

I recorded my own voice counting seconds for exactly one minute.  As
you say, the recorded waveform shows as 66 seconds.  If you look very
closely, it consists of exactly 60 small voice peaks (= me counting
the seconds), but spread over 66 seconds.

> Is your "Primary Sound Capture Driver" (that is, the Windows default
> recording device) the same device as the "High Definition" playback
> device? Does this device have drivers supplied by the motherboard
> or sound device manufacturer?
> http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Updating_Sound_Device_Drivers

I am handicapped here by 2 areas of ignorance:

- exactly what the facts below mean, ie what the 3 different enquiries
are looking at.

- how ANY mismatch can produce a SPEED difference on recording:  it
seems to me that however the sound bytes are transferred, they are
still coming in real time?  So how can drivers etc affect this?

Normally I try to conceal my ignorance until a kindly teenager comes
along.  But I wonder if other Audacity users find this stuff
confusing?  Maybe it is worth asking someone to clarify all this
"DirectSoundDriver" and "Mapper" and "MME" stuff, and how the tests
below (1-4) are related to each other?

To answer to Gale's questions is tricky because there are so many
options, I have no idea which control which others, and I'm not sure
which were in use when I made the test recording.  Today I find:

(1)  Audacity CTL-P > Devices shows:
Interface:  Host:  Windows Direct Sound  (alternative option = MME)
               Playback: Device:  Headset earphone (alt. opt. = MS Sound Mapper)
               Recording: Device:  Headset microphone (alt opt = MS
Sound Mapper Input)

(2)  Audacity screen shows, just below the cassette-player controls:
Windows Dire... (alt opt MME)
LS:  Headset earph... (alt opt Primary Sound Driver;  alt opt Speakers
HiDefAudio)
Mike:  Primary Sound Capture  (alt opt Headset Microphone)

(3)  Win7 CtlPanel > H&Sound > Sound shows:
Playback:  Headset earphone (alt opt Speakers HiDef Audio)
Recording:  Headset microphone (alt opt HDAudio mike - not connected)

(4)  Win7 DeviceManager > Sound&Video&Game controllers:
HDAudio Device:  Mfr = Microsoft!  Driver = Microsoft, 19nov10 (6 files)
MS Headset Lifechat:  Mfr = GenericUSBaudio!  Driver = Microsoft,
19nov10 (6 files)

The default device in (2) and (3) depends on whether the USB headset
is plugged in - but even when it is, I can still select the Speakers
output via the Audacity screen LS box.  I don't remember which I was
using when I made the test recordings which were slowed.

The slowed-recording problem is persistent (over several months) but
unreliable (today's recording synchronises perfectly with the time
scale above the waveform).  I presume it depends on what is selected
where?

I am very willing to try all sorts of combinations in (1) thru (4) AND
merrily update and roll-back drivers.  But it would be HUGELY helpful
if I understood what it all means!

Tony
--
www.godornot.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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contains a definitive record of customers, application performance,
security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this
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http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d
*********** ASKING FOR HELP *************

When asking for help on this list, please include the following information, so we can
help you properly:

* What operating system you are using (for example, Windows XP or Mac OS X 10.5.1)  

* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
   Audacity, or Audacity >  About Audacity on a Mac computer)  

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
   connected to the computer?

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Re: playback speed error

Gale
Administrator

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:14:45 -0400
Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:35 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Tony Carr <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>> > (Audacity 1.3.13beta, Dell Inspiron 640m, Win7, also running GKrellM)
> >> >>> > (Host: Windows Direct Sound, using PortAudio V19-devel)
> >> >>> > (Recording: Primary Sound Capture Driver, mono)
> >> >>> > (Playback: Speakers - High Definition Audio Device)
> >> >>> > (Sample 32,000Hz 24bit fast sinc)
> >> >>> > When I record (from MS LifeChat LX-3000 headset mike), the waveform
> >> >>> > shows that Audacity is recording about 8% slower than real life! ...
>
> > Is your "Primary Sound Capture Driver" (that is, the Windows default
> > recording device) the same device as the "High Definition" playback
> > device? Does this device have drivers supplied by the motherboard
> > or sound device manufacturer?
> > http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Updating_Sound_Device_Drivers
>
> I am handicapped here by 2 areas of ignorance:
>
> - exactly what the facts below mean, ie what the 3 different enquiries
> are looking at.
>
> - how ANY mismatch can produce a SPEED difference on recording:  it
> seems to me that however the sound bytes are transferred, they are
> still coming in real time?  So how can drivers etc affect this?

Every digital sound device has a so-called "Word Clock" that ticks, and  
the point at which it "ticks" is the point in time each sample is captured
at.  

This becomes an issue if you use one sound device for recording and a
different device for playback (for example, a USB recording device and
the built-in playback device) because the clock speeds will almost
certainly be fractionally different.

If the clock speeds are different, this gives the classic problem when
recording "overdubs" that the recorded track and the track you were
recording against will drift apart over time. Audacity's Time Shift Tool
cannot solve that problem. You would need to use Effect > Change
Speed on one of the tracks to fix it.  

"Sound device drivers" are pieces of software that tell the operating
system and the sound card how to interact. Using generic sound device
drivers supplied by Microsoft, or inappropriate or outdated drivers
(rather than the latest ones supplied by the manufacturer of the card
or the manufacturer of the motherboard) is a prime reason for severely
incorrect speed or mismatched speed between playback and recording.
This is because generic/incorrect drivers will not be specifically
matched to your particular motherboard.    

Anything other than a high-end professional sound card is not likely to
have a carefully calibrated clock in the first place. In your extreme
example (with current drivers) the recording speed is off and playback
speed off by the same amount.

Or the sound card itself might simply be faulty.  


 > Normally I try to conceal my ignorance until a kindly teenager comes
> along.

That will rule me out then :=)


> But I wonder if other Audacity users find this stuff  confusing?  Maybe it
> is worth asking someone to clarify all this "DirectSoundDriver" and
> "Mapper" and "MME" stuff, and how the tests below (1-4) are related
> to each other?

See if this helps:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/Device_Toolbar .

 

> To answer to Gale's questions is tricky because there are so many
> options, I have no idea which control which others, and I'm not sure
> which were in use when I made the test recording.  Today I find:
>
> (1)  Audacity CTL-P > Devices shows:
> Interface:  Host:  Windows Direct Sound  (alternative option = MME)
>                Playback: Device:  Headset earphone (alt. opt. = MS Sound Mapper)
>                Recording: Device:  Headset microphone (alt opt = MS
> Sound Mapper Input)
>
> (2)  Audacity screen shows, just below the cassette-player controls:
> Windows Dire... (alt opt MME)
> LS:  Headset earph... (alt opt Primary Sound Driver;  alt opt Speakers
> HiDefAudio)
> Mike:  Primary Sound Capture  (alt opt Headset Microphone)
>
> (3)  Win7 CtlPanel > H&Sound > Sound shows:
> Playback:  Headset earphone (alt opt Speakers HiDef Audio)
> Recording:  Headset microphone (alt opt HDAudio mike - not connected)
>
> (4)  Win7 DeviceManager > Sound&Video&Game controllers:
> HDAudio Device:  Mfr = Microsoft!  Driver = Microsoft, 19nov10 (6 files)
> MS Headset Lifechat:  Mfr = GenericUSBaudio!  Driver = Microsoft,
> 19nov10 (6 files)
>
> The default device in (2) and (3) depends on whether the USB headset
> is plugged in - but even when it is, I can still select the Speakers
> output via the Audacity screen LS box.  I don't remember which I was
> using when I made the test recordings which were slowed.
>
> The slowed-recording problem is persistent (over several months) but
> unreliable (today's recording synchronises perfectly with the time
> scale above the waveform).  I presume it depends on what is selected
> where?
>
> I am very willing to try all sorts of combinations in (1) thru (4) AND
> merrily update and roll-back drivers.  But it would be HUGELY helpful
> if I understood what it all means!

The USB headset is a separate playback and recording device. If you
were recording with that today and the recording length was correct,
and you played it back by your stopwatch and the playback took the
correct time, then the problem is probably with Realtek.

If you don't have good drivers (or a wonky device) then it can also
display speed errors intermittently rather than consistently. So find
out first which device is the black sheep; it's probably the built in
"HD" one. This would be expected as per the evidence above from
Device Manager (it only has a generic Microsoft driver).





Gale
 
 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure
contains a definitive record of customers, application performance,
security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this
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Re: playback speed error

Gale
Administrator

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 22:39:38 GMT
[hidden email] wrote:
> Every digital sound device has a so-called "Word Clock" that ticks, and  
> the point at which it "ticks" is the point in time each sample is captured
> at.  

That is probably better clarified as "every computer sound device has
a clock" I guess, to distinguish sound cards with digital inputs and
outputs from ones that only have analogue inputs and outputs, and
to distinguish pro digital cards which have a dedicated digital
"Word Clock" input/output to synchronize timing between multiple
devices (or have a digital I/O that supports word clock like ADAT,
AES/EBU or S/PDIF).

I don't know too much about all that.  




Gale

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* Exactly what three digit version number of Audacity you are using (Help > About
   Audacity, or Audacity >  About Audacity on a Mac computer)  

* If this is a recording problem, what equipment you are recording with, and how is it
   connected to the computer?

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